• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

Brake problems

Series3Scott

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
Hopped into my Series 3 the other day to go for a drive, backed out of the garage, hit the brakes to make my 3 point turn and NO BRAKES. My driveway slopes toward the neighbor's house so luckily I had the presence of mind to remember the emergency brake, otherwise I would have kept on going into their brick wall.

Once I started breathing again I turned the car off and popped the hood. Zero brake fluid in the master cylinder reservoir. Filled it up, pumped the pedal and could get almost no pressure. The fluid level remained constant so it's not sucking it in when I pump the pedal. Went around all four wheels with a flashlight and saw no evidence of leaks.

1. MC piston frozen? (tried gentle taps on the housing with a ball peen hammer)
2. Collapsed flexible hose? (how can you tell?)

Both items above are over 10 years old so I suppose it's time for something to go. The only thing recently introduced to the brake system is the speed bleeders but I made sure all four of those were tight.

What do you guys think?
 
Alpine 1789

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
Does the S3 have a brake booster? If so and if that fails, it will suck the fluid out and burn it in the engine with no evidence of leaks. I had that happen very close to my house. Had it waited just a few more minutes to fail, I might not have known about it until the next time I fired up the engine.
 
P. Scofield

P. Scofield

Bronze Level Sponsor
Scott, no fluid on floor?
If no, sounds like the fluid has worked it's was around the master. I know you don't have a booster.

Paul
 
Series3Scott

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
Paul, correct - my servo is bypassed so that's not the culprit.

And no fluid on the floor has me head scratching. Where is it going? :confused:
 
C

chazza

Donation Time
Time to get under the car and closely inspect every part of the brake system; it only needs a pinhole somewhere to drain it. Pull the drums off as well,

Good luck!
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Scott: It happened on Matilda around 10 or 12 years ago, and turned out to be the MC piston had failed, allowing fluid to leak past and no pressure. The fluid had leaked down the firewall and sneaked under the carpet.
 
Series3Scott

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
Sigh. This has all the makings of scope creep. I'll start by removing the brake MC, and while I'm there I'll finally replace the original clutch MC which looks terrible (have a brand new one waiting in the wings). If I can stop there I'll be fine but you know how these things snowball. ;)

Guess I shouldn't be surprised it's time to replace / rebuild things after 10+ years of driving the thing since its restoration. Those miles were worth it!
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
Next to steering failure, nothing is more likely to kill or maim you or your loved ones than sudden complete loss of brakes. Scott, you were lucky this happened in your yard and not when you were coming up to a stop sign at an intersection with trucks whizzing past.

I know, I know: I've been beating this drum for years. Single-system brakes without a fluid level warning are deadly, especially with the limited capability of most Alpines' hand brakes - if you even have time to apply them. After this happened to me three times - once on my wife's Volvo P1800 and twice on Matilda (once booster, once flex hose leak) I installed a fluid level warning system off a Fiat. The float and electric switch adapted quite easily to the 'beam M/C reservoir, and when triggered illuminates a large warning
light on the dash.

It's not fail-safe, because a broken or disconnected lead would not show up, so the monthly procedure is to manually depress the float and observe the light via a mirror on the driver's seat. I included some pictures in a post after I had installed the system, but deleted them from my camera long ago.

(Sound of drum beats.) IMHO, this is as vital as seat belts.
 
Series3Scott

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
Since I started this thread I thought I'd wrap it up today - the car has been sitting almost a week now since I filled the empty MC reservoir. Gritting my teeth I inspected it today and dammit the reservoir was 2/3rds empty. Pumped the pedal and got half pressure for a bit but then it quickly faded. Crawled under the car again and no visible leaks, so I finally pulled back the carpet against the firewall and groaned. Yep, wet.

That did it - I took the opportunity to take both the brake and clutch MC's off. Forgot how fun that was, especially the cups that retain the pedal springs - what a beeyotch! LOL.

Once the brake MC was off it was apparent the leaking had been going on for a while because the paint underneath the mounting spacer was bubbling. Oh well, she's been driven hard and fast now for almost 14 years so I guess it's time for stuff to start wearing out. I'll take that as a badge of honor. Doesn't happen to trailer queens....

So it's off to Apple Hydraulics to have both the brake and clutch MC's rebuilt. I have a new clutch MC I'll install now (original 'tin can' type with metal cover, not plastic) and will keep the other for a spare.

Timing is perfect don't you think? Beautiful spring weather, no humidity yet, and the car decides to get evil on me. Oh well, all part of the experience. Life is good.
 
G

Gitnrusty

Donation Time
Brake failure

Scott, are you sure there is no third party you can blame for this?
Seriously - I'm glad to see you making the best of what could have been a catastrophic situation .
Enjoy your new braking and clutching!
 
A

agmason54

Donation Time
Hey Scott
Im in the habit of testing brakes each time l drive. Next time your brake fluid magically disappears swipe your finger under the brake master and taste it.Nothing else tastes like normal brake fluid.lve never tasted the new purple stuff.Im glad you and car are OK in that order.Remember you are the predident of my personal club- THE FUTURE HAS BEENS! since it was your idea.Why not just rebuild your masters and take me to lunch with the money you will save?As long as thd bores are good its a piece of cake.
Later cheif
Al
 
Series3Scott

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
One of those days....

So I dig out an NOS Girling rebuild kit, get the brake MC back together but the seal next to the piston won't go into the bore. What the heck? I look up the Girling SP# and sure enough it's for the .875 bore, not the .70 cylinder I'm using. Crap. The good news is the cylinder was spotless. That's what you get with regular use.

Placed an order with Pegasus and the Series 3 will have to wait a few more days to get brakes and clutch again. Think I'll steal the new flexible hoses off the Sebring car and replace the 14 year old ones on the Series 3. Might as well go with fresh parts all around. The road is calling - drive your cars!
 
Last edited:
Series3Scott

Series3Scott

Co-Founder/Past President
Platinum Level Sponsor
Aarrggghhh!!

Installed the new clutch MC today, bled it and got the clutch back. Woohoo!

Installed the rebuilt brake MC and new flexible hoses but couldn't get any firmness built up in the pedal. Fluid in the reservoir wasn't getting sucked into the system. I was very careful to install the parts in correct sequence, etc. so what could this be? :confused:

The only part of the rebuild that seemed odd to me was the valve seal, placed at the very end of the valve rod. It doesn't lock into anything so I installed the whole assembly holding the cylinder vertically inserting the assembly up into the cylinder. Still, when you go to install the MC into the car I wonder if that seal shakes loose at the very end of the cylinder.
 
Last edited:
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
I would suspect the piston is not retracting all the way. Why would it not? I dunno. There always seems to be some horsepucky reason things don't work as their are supposed to.

Bill
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top