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3.0 V6 Ford
- Thread starter Buckeye64
- Start date
Very difficult question. To the best of my knowledge, no one has made a serious attempt to install a Vulcan V6 into an Alpine. The common wisdom would be there is insufficient clearance for headers. But that was said about the Ford 4.0 V6 and Dan found that to be not true. But I do know this:
The tranny is the M5R1 that is found in all Rangers from the late 80's on up. It is a good, but not stellar transmission. That is what is in my car. Many Alpine owners have driven it and no one complains about the transmission. The M5R1 requires tunnel surgery, but probably no more than required by a T5. It is big and heavy, about 90 pounds.
The stock clutch is adequate. The slave cylinder is a good match with the Alpine clutch master cylinder and they are easy to cobble together. Some do not like the integral master cylinder because it requires transmission removal to access it. That is true, but if you stick with a Ford unit, they require little service. The ones in our Fords have not failed in over 250,000 miles of use. Our son recently junked a ZX2 with over 265,000 miles and a perfectly operable OEM clutch slave.
The gear shifter has a poor location, being 6" in front of the stock Alpine shifter. I did not like the shifter motion that induced and made a remote shifter so my shifter location is Alpine stock. Easy to do and works VERY well.
The engine is a good powerplant, but not the most powerful 3.0. Nor is there much available in the way of go fast goodies. But at about 160 hp, it should be a fun engine and the equal of almost any 2.8. The Vulcan was designed as a computer fed engine, so if you want a carbed engine, it will be a difficult change.
Sounds like the price is right, but is this what you want? I see this as a multi year pioneering effort in which you will be shopping the internet and junkyards, looking for parts that can be modified to fit. You'll a shop with lots of metal working tools. Lots of fabrication, usually several models of parts. As the installation proceeds, things that looked good on day one prove to be unworkable on day 243.
Could be lots of fun or a nightmare, depending on your expectations.
Bill
The tranny is the M5R1 that is found in all Rangers from the late 80's on up. It is a good, but not stellar transmission. That is what is in my car. Many Alpine owners have driven it and no one complains about the transmission. The M5R1 requires tunnel surgery, but probably no more than required by a T5. It is big and heavy, about 90 pounds.
The stock clutch is adequate. The slave cylinder is a good match with the Alpine clutch master cylinder and they are easy to cobble together. Some do not like the integral master cylinder because it requires transmission removal to access it. That is true, but if you stick with a Ford unit, they require little service. The ones in our Fords have not failed in over 250,000 miles of use. Our son recently junked a ZX2 with over 265,000 miles and a perfectly operable OEM clutch slave.
The gear shifter has a poor location, being 6" in front of the stock Alpine shifter. I did not like the shifter motion that induced and made a remote shifter so my shifter location is Alpine stock. Easy to do and works VERY well.
The engine is a good powerplant, but not the most powerful 3.0. Nor is there much available in the way of go fast goodies. But at about 160 hp, it should be a fun engine and the equal of almost any 2.8. The Vulcan was designed as a computer fed engine, so if you want a carbed engine, it will be a difficult change.
Sounds like the price is right, but is this what you want? I see this as a multi year pioneering effort in which you will be shopping the internet and junkyards, looking for parts that can be modified to fit. You'll a shop with lots of metal working tools. Lots of fabrication, usually several models of parts. As the installation proceeds, things that looked good on day one prove to be unworkable on day 243.
Could be lots of fun or a nightmare, depending on your expectations.
Bill
Truer words were never spoken!
Hi Buckeye,
The simple answer is no. If you have enough time and MONEY, you can do anything, but should you do it, is another question. To fit any other 60 degree V6 into an Alpine, other than a 2.6 or 2.8 versions is a lot of work. You'd need to highly modify the steering system, to begin with. One of the guys that is happy with the performance of his Chevy V6 powered Alpine, said if he had to do it again, he'd go with the 2.8 Cologne engine. A ton easier and cheaper to boot. The main reason for not doing it, is that the exhaust ports are in the wrong place on any other 60 degree V6. That is the reason it takes so much effort to make it work.
Anyone can do as he pleases, because it is your car, after all, but you need to know what you're getting into. I personally don't criticize anyone for their personal choices. To each his own, but you should know what you would be getting into.
The simple answer is no. If you have enough time and MONEY, you can do anything, but should you do it, is another question. To fit any other 60 degree V6 into an Alpine, other than a 2.6 or 2.8 versions is a lot of work. You'd need to highly modify the steering system, to begin with. One of the guys that is happy with the performance of his Chevy V6 powered Alpine, said if he had to do it again, he'd go with the 2.8 Cologne engine. A ton easier and cheaper to boot. The main reason for not doing it, is that the exhaust ports are in the wrong place on any other 60 degree V6. That is the reason it takes so much effort to make it work.
Anyone can do as he pleases, because it is your car, after all, but you need to know what you're getting into. I personally don't criticize anyone for their personal choices. To each his own, but you should know what you would be getting into.
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
Buckeye, Now you know "it can't be done!" So give up and buy one of Jose's kits'... I have one of his in the For Sale section just like new with a discount price. Try it you will like it
Read a lot! And find a Mutt II 2.8 V6 with the manual transmission and you will be on your way to a great experience.
Burtonpower.com has a lot of stuff for the 2.8 V6 but may be expensive in some cases.
Then there is an outfit in Australia or New Zealand that offers the Bell Housing (if you can't find one state side. But again might be expensive....
The next hardest and must have part is the timing cover from the Mutt II. With the Timing Cover and Bell Housing you can relax. The other parts/stuff are relatively easy.
Read a lot! And find a Mutt II 2.8 V6 with the manual transmission and you will be on your way to a great experience.
Burtonpower.com has a lot of stuff for the 2.8 V6 but may be expensive in some cases.
Then there is an outfit in Australia or New Zealand that offers the Bell Housing (if you can't find one state side. But again might be expensive....
The next hardest and must have part is the timing cover from the Mutt II. With the Timing Cover and Bell Housing you can relax. The other parts/stuff are relatively easy.
Thanks for all the responses
The main thing was the price was right but after reading all the post it just doesn't seem worth the trouble. The engine has over 200K so a rebuild was in order anyways. The 2.8 V6 has already been done and there is a wealth of knowledge on that swap so if I decide to go that way I will pick the 2.8.
Again thanks for all the input.
The main thing was the price was right but after reading all the post it just doesn't seem worth the trouble. The engine has over 200K so a rebuild was in order anyways. The 2.8 V6 has already been done and there is a wealth of knowledge on that swap so if I decide to go that way I will pick the 2.8.
Again thanks for all the input.
britbeam
Donation Time
3,0 Ford V6
Building a V6 Alpine is a adventure. I chose the proven method of the 2.8 V6 because of wanting performance and the desire to get on the road. Six months later bingo Im driving everyday. Along the way since I built my S2 changes have come but always the 2.8 Ford remains the easiest option. The quality of the Jose Kit parts remains a standard. I received my kit before I had a donor engine and was proud to display it on the shelf to show the quality.I knew looking at those parts I would not short change the build. Yes you can use other engines but does it fit easily,will its weight suit the handling of the Alpine ect. Build with a V6 Jose kit, stick to your project everyday and you too will be driving and enjoying your Alpine soon. I love it. Driving to out of town events is a car show in its self. Every gas stop is a car show. I was leaving a local cruise in one summer night I had already started my Alpine when a young boy and his mom came up to my drivers door staring and the mom said " He has a Alpine just like this" He opened his hand to reveal a James Bond early series HiFin Alpine. Son! I turned off the motor opened the door and told him to sit behind the wheel. Made his day, month and year all at one time. What a thrill! Share your experience with others you just might make some one happy. Sorry for the long post but when YOU build a car you enjoy so much its hard to contain it. Thanks to Jose and all the others that had a big part or some little part in the Alpine Mod experience.
RockOn
Dwain V6 Krazy
Building a V6 Alpine is a adventure. I chose the proven method of the 2.8 V6 because of wanting performance and the desire to get on the road. Six months later bingo Im driving everyday. Along the way since I built my S2 changes have come but always the 2.8 Ford remains the easiest option. The quality of the Jose Kit parts remains a standard. I received my kit before I had a donor engine and was proud to display it on the shelf to show the quality.I knew looking at those parts I would not short change the build. Yes you can use other engines but does it fit easily,will its weight suit the handling of the Alpine ect. Build with a V6 Jose kit, stick to your project everyday and you too will be driving and enjoying your Alpine soon. I love it. Driving to out of town events is a car show in its self. Every gas stop is a car show. I was leaving a local cruise in one summer night I had already started my Alpine when a young boy and his mom came up to my drivers door staring and the mom said " He has a Alpine just like this" He opened his hand to reveal a James Bond early series HiFin Alpine. Son! I turned off the motor opened the door and told him to sit behind the wheel. Made his day, month and year all at one time. What a thrill! Share your experience with others you just might make some one happy. Sorry for the long post but when YOU build a car you enjoy so much its hard to contain it. Thanks to Jose and all the others that had a big part or some little part in the Alpine Mod experience.
RockOn
Dwain V6 Krazy
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DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
Here's a good buy on a 2.8 V6 w/Std bellhousing
Buckeye,
I found this one in PA (In an E-mail we communicated):
ttscooks10@yahoo.com
Nov 27 (6 days ago)
to me (DanR)
Add should be under mustang ii parts on Cumberland valley,pa.it's a v6 4speed out of a 77 mustang.have bellhousing and clutch.not sure what year it is.looking to get $350 for all.thanx Tim.I have other mustang ii parts if that's you're looking for.
Give it a try! You might like it
Buckeye,
I found this one in PA (In an E-mail we communicated):
ttscooks10@yahoo.com
Nov 27 (6 days ago)
to me (DanR)
Add should be under mustang ii parts on Cumberland valley,pa.it's a v6 4speed out of a 77 mustang.have bellhousing and clutch.not sure what year it is.looking to get $350 for all.thanx Tim.I have other mustang ii parts if that's you're looking for.
Give it a try! You might like it
Mike Armstrong
Bronze Level Sponsor
^ What he said.
Go the 2.8/Jose Kit route for the proven 'sure thing' conversion. There's a wealth of info on this site to guide you through that particular install. Deviate from that well trodden path at your own risk. Can you install other engines, parts, kits? Sure! Have at it. Personally, since it was my first venture into doing this conversion, I took the advice of others and went the proven route, glad I did. Once you've got the engine and transmission installed there's still a ton of mods you can do.
Many thanks to all those that came to my rescue, several times
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Jim E
Donation Time
v6 which v6..
I have done this a time or two.... the 2.8 is the easy road and you can make some nice power.... you want to go of the reservation have at it.... you want to drive well... the Jose conversion is the way to go the best engineered kit for the V6 there is... now if you want to build power in the motor.. well not so hard
I have done this a time or two.... the 2.8 is the easy road and you can make some nice power.... you want to go of the reservation have at it.... you want to drive well... the Jose conversion is the way to go the best engineered kit for the V6 there is... now if you want to build power in the motor.. well not so hard