1963 Hillman Husky

[SoCal'beaming]

1963 hillman husky mark II - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle...

Motor runs good. I do have side windows.very rare car. Call Don for more information. .

losangeles.craigslist.org

 

[DanR]

I had a little Red & White one back in '61, sure loved it for around town Charleston, SC.

Makes me want to buy this one, but too many projects,

 

[bernd_st]

Nice find and a lovely car once properly restored. We also have a nice red/white one in our club with a 2l tuned 4cyl. 1725cc alu head Engine and widened original 15" steel rims. Goes like stink and occasionally serves as our club service car. Have a look here:

 

[hartmandm]

"Goes like stink" - does that mean it is really slow?

 

[bernd_st]

No, it' s very fast and goes up to 180km/h on the german Autobahns. Only if needed though ;-)

 

[Series6]

There’s one in eastern Washington I’m trying to acquire

 

[DanR]

Nice find and a lovely car once properly restored. We also have a nice red/white one in our club with a 2l tuned 4cyl. 1725cc alu head Engine and widened original 15" steel rims. Goes like stink and occasionally serves as our club service car. Have a look here:

View attachment 29475

I love that Hillman.... There is one about 0 miles from me that I have tried to buy numerous times. It is not complete, but, that is fine with me.

Sure brings back great memories from my '59 Red and White.... If I could get it, you know what I would do don't YOU?

 

[DanR]

There’s one in eastern Washington I’m trying to acquire

Sure hope you get it Nick!

 

[Series6]

I’ve been trying to get this from a friend’s dad for 8 years. I have another V6 and T5, sitting in my shop.

The Hillman is right next to the Ford Falcon Futura with the 260. I want that too.

 

[husky drvr]

If I could get it, you know what I would do don't YOU?

. I have another V6 and T5, sitting in my shop.

Guys,

Before you get too excited about what you are thinking, dumping a Ford v6 in a Husky can probably be done, but it almost certainly will not use Alpine headers without major mods to the car or headers. Even dropping in an Alpine sIV engine with all stock parts requires the cast iron manifold down pipes be modified to fit. In some ways the v6 installation could be easier, in others it will be definitely different. The fire wall in the Husky and other Audax saloons is closer to the cross member.

Here is the link to the WSM Body section. Study the differences between the Alpine and Rapier under body dimensions concerning the transmission to cross member mounting positions and dimensions referencing the firewall.

https://sunbeamalpine.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/16-Body-O.pdf

 

[DanR]

Don, I should mention that the gent owning the Hillman I want to purchase has another with a Chrysler Hemi. It was done most professionally and does get into the firewall considerably.

If I should perchance get the hillman and decide to go with the V6, I know full well I will be forced to re-design my V6 headers.

As usuall I appreciate you and your expertize with out Sunbeams. Keep on keeping on,

DanR

 

[husky drvr]

decide to go with the V6, I know full well I will be forced to re-design my V6 headers.

Dan,

I had a good idea you already knew some of the issues. I've seen pics of things which have been done "because it can be done." Some impressive, but few leaving an all around, all weather, enjoyable, streetable vehicle. An "elephantized" Husky may make for a wonderful piece of mobile art, but it's a show piece instead of a useful vehicle.

I guess it comes down to what I didn't say about the Husky and a v6. I didn't want to stop you if you got a specimen to adapt to your desires.

Knowing about the only part you could carryover to the Husky are the header flanges, maybe something other than a Cologne v6 might be a better starting point for the desired outcome. Even a modern four cylinder might be better, Bill certainly seems to like his Duratec.

The suspension is nowhere up to much in the way of "spirited" driving due to design and high C/G. Your kit to replace the rear lever shocks might help some; due to angles - might not. With the high C/G and limited rear suspension travel, the inside rear lifts enough to loose traction. Then the O/E 1390cc makes more power than the Husky can utilize.

Lastly, the body itself really needs more structural bracing to deal with power at the v6 level - something like the Alpine's "X"-brace would only be a start for the need. The rear wheel wells are only wide enough to fit 5-5.5 inch wheels IF the offset is absolutely perfect. Even at that, the tires rubbing the inner fenders will be the lateral axle location.

In my avatar pic, the Husky has a 1725 with one of those "terrible" sIV Solex two barrel carbs, smaller than a Weber 32/36. More than enough power for too much fun. In the seventies, the Husky was fun to autocross, but not really competitive. Today, due to SCCA rule changes, it wouldn't be allowed on the track due it being unsafe.

Most of these issues can be addressed and improved, maybe fixed, but the more changes the less the car is what you remember. Maybe what is wanted, but apples and oranges.

As you say, Keep on keeping on,

 

[Series6]

Thanks for the info. When I looked under the hood I did not realize that. I appreciate it.

 

[husky drvr]

Thanks for the info. When I looked under the hood I did not realize that. I appreciate it.

Nick,

Your welcome.

I only sort of knew it because the down pipe needed to be modified. I didn't really investigate until I asked Jose about his kit. Needless to say, after that, I decided not to go in that direction.

Have fun,

 

[DanR]

Don, Jose also said it couldn't be done (Putting a 4.0 in an Alpine mainly due to the exhaust arrangement) unless you destroyed the Alpine cutting it up to fit.

I intend to re-visit the Hillman with the hemi next time I am up that-a-way and take a lot of pictures.


If you are referring to the downpipes from the jose kit, I must strongly agree. and even then the mod's are very difficult to achieve.

AS of now my hands are very busy and my cup is running over.

I might also add if I did a V6 conversion in a Hillman Wagon it would be for a Driver only.

 

[husky drvr]

If you are referring to the downpipes from the jose kit

Dan,

No, I was referring to the Alpine's dual downpipe between the cast iron manifold and the rest of the system - it will not clear the Husky crossmember in stock form. Sorry if I was unclear. Jose didn't know if his kit would fit the Husky and wanted me to be the test case. I didn't have tools or skills to do that type installation - fabrication, and at the time, not much of a budget.

I suspect the 4.0 might be an easier install in the saloon bodies than in the Alpine. The catch is you should plan on an automatic and be surprised if you can work out the puzzle to fit the manual trans.

 

[Barry]

Guys,

Before you get too excited about what you are thinking, dumping a Ford v6 in a Husky can probably be done, but it almost certainly will not use Alpine headers without major mods to the car or headers. Even dropping in an Alpine sIV engine with all stock parts requires the cast iron manifold down pipes be modified to fit. In some ways the v6 installation could be easier, in others it will be definitely different. The fire wall in the Husky and other Audax saloons is closer to the cross member.

Here is the link to the WSM Body section. Study the differences between the Alpine and Rapier under body dimensions concerning the transmission to cross member mounting positions and dimensions referencing the firewall.

https://sunbeamalpine.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/16-Body-O.pdf

A quick look at the "underframe dimension" drawings that Don referenced reveals that the Series Alpine and Husky unibodys have a LOT in common along with a couple of significant differences. No surprise since the Series Alpine platform is directly descended from the Husky.

The front clips for the two platforms are essentially identical (length, width, side profile, suspension design and location, steering layout and location, transmission support bracket mount locations, etc.). The primary vertical firewall in the Alpine is about 3-5/8" further rearward than the Husky firewall. Firewalls are easily modified, so ... Since the front clips are essentially identical, I see no reason why headers that work for a Ford 2.8 V6 Alpine conversion would not also work for a Ford 2.8 V6 Husky conversion.

The rear clips for the two platforms are also essentially identical (width, side profile, suspension design, etc.). The overall length and rear leaf spring shackle length of the Alpine rear clip is about 3" shorter than the Husky. Since the rear clips for the two platforms are essentially identical, I see no reason that the limited rear suspension travel that Don noted for the Husky platform could not be increased to be similar to the Series Alpine.

The big difference between the two platforms is the addition of the cruciform structure to the bottom of the Series Alpine platform. I assume (yes, I know) that the cruciform was necessary to compensate for the loss of longitudinal vertical beam strength when the roof structure of the Husky was removed to create the Alpine platform.

The Husky platform can be accurately described as front and rear suspension clips with nothing but an empty sheet metal box in-between. An Alpine style cruciform structure could probably be added to the bottom of the Husky platform, but if I were doing a Husky conversion, I would use welded-in tubular steel "sub-frame connectors" (as often used to stiffen early Camaros and Mustangs) to tie the front and rear clips together.

The bottom line is that the Husky and Series Alpine are a lot more alike than different and any engine (and transmission) that "fits" in an Alpine should be equally doable (or not) in a Husky. Having said that, I agree with Don's comment that a modern four cylinder might be a better option than a V6 (and certainly better than a Chrysler Hemi no matter how well done). I can't help thinking that the Mazda Miata 1.6 & 5-speed used in Toyanvil's super-sano S-II conversion would be perfect in a Husky.

JMO, YMMV.

 

[DanR]

Barry, I fully agree with your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs as that was my belief early on. Your 4th an 5th paragraphs are definitely more than worthy considerations. I remember the '50 Chevy Convertible I have has extra metal added (by factory) to the underside for strength like what you described.

What ever engine options selected are yet to be considered, but I do prefer the 60 degree V6's. The FORD 4 cyl like Bill's would/could be my next choice.

 

[husky drvr]

the "underframe dimension" drawings that Don referenced

Barry,

The rear underframe dimensions are almost identical as well between the Husky and Alpine sI and sII. I only referenced the dimensions between the trans support mounting location and forward. The Rapier is 96 inch wheel base as opposed to the Husky and Alpine's 86 inch wheel base. If I had realized someone was going to do a full comparison between those two drawings, I would mentioned that difference. Sorry for the confusion.

Firewalls are easily modified,

Well, I suppose. If the goal is to retain the original steering system, then the firewall can't be modified in any meaningful manner. The steering cross tube actually rides in a channel immediately above the trans tunnel. Dan's modified cross tube will not gain any clearance to relocate the engine rearward. The steering relay arms are a different shape from the Alpine's arms as well.

If the engine can't be moved rearward to match the Alpine's location, then it must be moved forward and up to a position above the crossmember. The only differences between the Husky's and Alpine's crossmembers, that I can tell, are the caster shims and the height and location of the factory engine mount pads. The Husky's are near the front of the crossmember instead of the rear. The space at the bottom of the Husky's engine bay is certainly no larger, and probably tighter than an Alpine's because of the tighter crossmember to firewall dimension. Moving the engine up gives a 50/50 chance the header vertical dimension will give clearance to the floor pan. At least one tube on each side will have interference with the crossmember.

the cruciform was necessary to compensate for the loss of longitudinal vertical beam strength

That to a lesser degree than diagonal rigidity, but certainly longitudinal strength. The Husky is sorely lacking in diagonal rigidity. Think of how easily you can lozenge an open ended four sided structure. Then consider how little actual metal connects the body to the roof.

Since the rear clips for the two platforms are essentially identical, I see no reason that the limited rear suspension travel that Don noted for the Husky platform could not be increased to be similar to the Series Alpine.

The Husky has the original crossmember and front springs (stiffer than even s3 springs), sIV front A-arms, spindles, disk brakes, and anti-sway bar. The rear suspension is sII rear axle, brakes, lever shocks, and springs without the rebound limiting straps. All that glass and roof metal have a lot more leverage than you might expect in a hard turn, even al low speeds.

Hope this helps,

 

[Barry]

Don,

I gave up on the Rootes corporate front suspension and steering layout a long time ago. Just too many compromises. I have had a fabricated front suspension crossmember with coilover shocks, R&P steering and adjustable upper A-arms ready to go in my S-V for two years but have not had a place to do the work. When we move to Alabama in about a month, I will finally have dedicated shop space. We shall see.