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1962 Series 2 Ignition Timing

gearheadgirl

Donation Time
On my '62 Chryslers...it is really straight forward...
A pointer, a Few Numbers on the pointer tab and ONE line on the balancer

On the Alpine I am confused...
A pointer, No Numbers and A TON of Hash Marks on the balancer

How do i time this car with my timing light?
Granted with the 8 to 10 Hash Marks that are there...there is one set of Hash Marks that create a rather wide mark...and that is the first set of marks on the balancer. The book makes some sense, but not enough to help me succeed.

Anyone live here in Southern California that can help teach me how to properly tune and time this car?

Thanks!
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
On my '62 Chryslers...it is really straight forward...
A pointer, a Few Numbers on the pointer tab and ONE line on the balancer

On the Alpine I am confused...
A pointer, No Numbers and A TON of Hash Marks on the balancer

How do i time this car with my timing light?
Granted with the 8 to 10 Hash Marks that are there...there is one set of Hash Marks that create a rather wide mark...and that is the first set of marks on the balancer. The book makes some sense, but not enough to help me succeed.

Anyone live here in Southern California that can help teach me how to properly tune and time this car?

Thanks!

I'd have been happy to but we moved from socal 4 years ago...


Looking from the front perspective and the lines at the top, the leftmost line is TDC and each line thereafter is usually 5 degrees BTDC.

The pointer is on the timing cover.


HTH
 

gordonra

Donation Time
Engine (Section B, Page 51) of WSM-145 shows two different flywheels used and their respective timing marks.

If you don't have a copy, you can download it from the Technical Data section of this website.

Rich
 

gearheadgirl

Donation Time
You mean...if looking at the marked balancer from the passenger side...the marks closest to the drivers side...the far left mark is TDC?
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Just an idea.
I don't use the factory specs, I use a vacuum gauge. It is very easy to use. With todays gas, especially in socal all the additives make for a gas that detonates much different then 50 years ago.
This may help.
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

I work in Irvine sometimes, if you need help P.M me.

So you test your "vacuum" under load and RPMs where the detonation might occur?

If not, what relationship do you think there is between an engine running at idle (at max vacuum) versus an engine under load on the verge of detonation?
Do you assume that just offsetting the timing to make best vacuum at idle will give proper timing for your fuel under load?
You shouldnt.

The best timing at idle will vary a great deal from engine to engine, particularly when the cam is no longer stock.
The wide open throttle timing will not vary much at all from engine to engine when they are moderately similar and timing under load is far more critical as far as internal damage compared to idle timing.

Since you cant (easily) adjust the timing curve to get the best idle and loaded timing, its much safer to use the factory timing values.
 

Toyanvil

Gold Level Sponsor
This was just one idea to help, the OP ask for help tuning up their car. Using a vacuum gauge to tune up motors is as old as motor themselves, I have used this method for the last 30 years on all my cars and boats with carburetors with great results.
Funny thing is, in the late 70s I was trained as a BMW tech on how to use a vacuum gauge to tune up and trouble shoot cars.
You would not test your "vacuum" under load and RPMs, you make all adjustments at idle. If your carburetor is jetted right and your advance curve is correct this method will work. What I have found with factory specs, is that they are for gas they don't make anymore. Today gas is lower octane with more additives.
I found a better link, that shows how to use it for tune ups.
http://www.classicinlines.com/Vacuum.asp
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Well I am sorry to say that whatever method you use to set the idle timing which involves manifold vacuum, it will result in timing more advanced than factory figures. Manifold vacuum is an indicator of volumetric efficiency and will generally go up with timing and timing induced RPM increase.

As I said before (like a broken record), the idle timing requirements and the load timing requirements are rather different, but when you offset one, the other gets the same offset whether it needs it or not.

The fuels that were available back in the 60s were more volatile and have a higher octane rating than todays pump gas.

Use whatever method you think will work for you (its your car), but nearly every rootes engine I've torn into has broken rings and pock marked pistons from long term over advanced ignition timing.

All my alpine engines have been rather modified, to the point where the factory distributor curves are not even close. As a result I always recurve the distributor and thus have control over the idle and timing under load.
The method I used to set the curve is either an accelerometer based setup, or an RPM logging setup, both of which show the equivalent of the torque curve of the engine and allows me to decide if my change was helpful or not.

A simplified though single dimensional equivalent involves a stopwatch and two RPM or speed points with a wide open throttle in a gear high enough to provide accurate timings.

Even this simplified method is superior since its the timing under load that kills an engine with detonation (ever heard pinging at idle?), and wide open throttle timing is the most important attribute to both power as well and determining if the engine is detonating.

As you add timing (at wide open throttle), your acceleration will get better with each degree of timing until it hits a plateau. The plateau usually is across two or 3 degrees where more timing doesnt help acceleration nor does it cause knock. Once you find the plateau, you set the max RPM timing to the onset of the plateau and you are done.

You record the idle and max timing figures as indicated by a timing light, then if you feel the idle and light load timing is not optimal, you can tweak the timing to "offset" from best power timing and determine if the advance rate needs tweaked. Again measuring the "offset" in timing on the timing light.

Then with both sets of timing figures you can determine what the curve should look like and modify the distributor for that curve.
After which you would set the max RPM back to the same point where the plateau just began.


Yes its complicated.
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
Wow, you must like typing :eek:
Someday when you have time, you should take a look at the link.
http://www.classicinlines.com/Vacuum.asp

Not so much I like typing but rather wanted you to know the correct procedure.

Ive read the many methods using vacuum to set up ignition.
Other than helping to diagnose an engine with a problem, the information is simply wrong.

Just becuase the info is on the internet doesnt make it correct.

I am often paid to tune engine ignitions on some pretty sweet rides. Manifold vacuum is always available, but doesnt enter into how the ignition is tuned/mapped. Acceleration rate, EGT and audible/inaudible knock is.

Regards
 
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