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1725 Usable Head?

mxp01

Platinum Level Sponsor
I’m going thru my recently acquired 1725. I pulled the head last week and two things stood out to me.

1st the head has been resurfaced too about it’s limit.
2nd there are small pin holes around the water jackets.

I never noticed these small pin holes the times I pulled the head on my 1600 and I feel like I should concerned about these pin holes…

When I pulled the head there was no sign of water sitting in the combustion chamber or that it had been consuming water (the cylinders were not steam cleaned).

In y’all’s expert opinions, would any of you run this head or dispose of it and source another?
 

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Craigegg

Donation Time
To me, it doesn’t look bad. The issues I have with my heads is that the water jackets have pitted or eroded to the point they leak past the gasket.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
I think they might just be air pockets in the casting, the water jackets actually look really good, not corroded outwards and well within the crescent of the gasket cutout.

As for the head depth, i can still see the pry bar relief so it has some meat in it. If you are worried about it being to skimmed measure the cc of a chamber. If it's less than 37cc then open it up with a vizard mod.
 

sunny67

Silver Level Sponsor
I think they might just be air pockets in the casting, the water jackets actually look really good, not corroded outwards and well within the crescent of the gasket cutout.

As for the head depth, i can still see the pry bar relief so it has some meat in it. If you are worried about it being to skimmed measure the cc of a chamber. If it's less than 37cc then open it up with a vizard mod.
Please provide us with a description of a vizard mod. I’m in a similar boat as mxp01.
 

mxp01

Platinum Level Sponsor
Thanks for the input everyone.

Another thing I noticed about this head. It is a later head due to it only having one spring on the valves. The valve guides have seals on the tops, and I can’t seem to find these seals in any parts catalog. I don’t recall my 1592 head having these seals.
 

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Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
mxp01 and sunny67,

Clicking on the search box at the top-right of any forum page and entering "Vizard modification" will return a list of about 100 relevant posts.
 

mxp01

Platinum Level Sponsor
Does the head have the spark plug tubes or open casting?
In Florida working so I had to pull up an older picture from my phone and zoom in.

Appears to have tubes.
 

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husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
The valve guides have seals on the tops, and I can’t seem to find these seals in any parts catalog. I don’t recall my 1592 head having these seals.

mxp01,

You wont find those seals in any Sunbeam parts catalog. They were never installed by the factory, but at a later time by a machine shop. Whichever machine shop you use for any further work on that head should be able to supply and install those seals. I don't think those seals were even available until a later time when tailpipe emissions were more of a concern.

Your picture of these seals was cause for a rethink about your first pic of the combustion side of the this head. A couple of anomalies stand out on close inspection.

First is the porosity around the cooling crescent. If all of these passages have that porosity, I think they have all been "welded" as part of a repair. If you notice in that passage on the apparent floor, there is what appears to be drops of filler material stuck there. The casting core which formed that passage would have left a smoother surface similar to the other branch.

I think you're justified about a concern for the pits in your picture. Three of the larger ones are breaking into the cylinder sealing "fire ring." They might not have been leaking upon tear down but are a definite weak spot for extended usage.

Second, your picture of the combustion chamber shows a great deal of carbon buildup, probably from burning oil. The more effective oil seals didn't fix that issue. The pistons, rings, and bores are probably worn and weren't touched when the head was serviced. The pitting in the chamber near the exhaust valve is most likely due to mixture detonation. That might have been due to poor quality gas, a poor engine tune or condition, or non effective engine venting or PVC causing oil dilution of the mixture and causing an effective lower octane in that cylinder.

Third, pictures online can be deceiving but the exhaust seat insert seems to show definite rust pitting in the valve sealing face. Both the seat and valve may need to be replaced.

Lastly. That head MIGHT have been treated to a porting or Vizard modification. It might have just been an attempt to lower compression ratio due to the previous material removal. If you check the top edge of the chamber, in an unmodified head, that edge is straight all the way to the curve at the end of the chamber. Yours is scooped out around the intake valve, similar to the Vizard mod.

Do you know any of the history on this engine?

Just a few thoughts,
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
So, Alpine_64, do those head pits require fixing/filling?

It's not a late head, so it didn't come with single springs. I think the springs are stamped with a part number. You might want to look up the numbers to make sure you don't have some oddball like a lower-than-normal spring rate off of a cast-iron head.

How are the surfaces on the lifter faces? They can make extra noise with just a few pits.
 

mxp01

Platinum Level Sponsor
Husky,

I was told when I purchased the engine that it was rebuilt some 5k miles ago, bored over, had a mild cam, and had some head work. I wanted to give it a good once over and look at everything internally before I just put it in the car and send it.

What I discovered in my tear down so far.

-The intake and exhaust ports have been worked on
-The single valve springs seem odd (I need to check for part number)
-valve guide seals
-pitting at the valve seats
-the air pockets around the water jackets
-It has .040 over pistons
-the cam is stamped with "INTEGRAL 110 274X305"

I have not yet pulled the rod caps yet to remove the pistons. I will do that when i'm home next weekend.
 

Knightowl61

Gold Level Sponsor
Another thing to check - pop the rear freeze plug on the block to see if the cylinder wall is packed with crud.
 

bobbo

Gold Level Sponsor
Another thing I noticed about this head. It is a later head due to it only having one spring on the valves. The valve guides have seals on the tops, and I can’t seem to find these seals in any parts catalog. I don’t recall my 1592 head having these seals.

Aren't the valve guide seals ( O rings ) part of the head gasket kit?
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
In Florida working so I had to pull up an older picture from my phone and zoom in.

Appears to have tubes.
I think it's a usual mid production head not a later one as in late 66 some of the heads without the sparking plug tubes started to be used and then into the arrow series cars they no longer have the tubes and they get the single springs.

I'm thinking someone switched out from the double springs during the rebuild...
 

mxp01

Platinum Level Sponsor
Engine block stamped with B395017151 September of 67. The matching chassis # is in the registry on this website.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Engine block stamped with B395017151 September of 67. The matching chassis # is in the registry on this website.
Yes....but the heads been off the car.. and perhaps swapped over.

The late heads on the final alpines got the redesigned spark plug casting. Probably slightly cheaper as less complex, slightly lighter as less meatal ..and removed the oil leaks from the plug tubes.. all wins... except for its aesthetics...
 

Mikeflbmer

Bronze Level Sponsor
I’m going thru my recently acquired 1725. I pulled the head last week and two things stood out to me.

1st the head has been resurfaced too about it’s limit.
2nd there are small pin holes around the water jackets.

I never noticed these small pin holes the times I pulled the head on my 1600 and I feel like I should concerned about these pin holes…

When I pulled the head there was no sign of water sitting in the combustion chamber or that it had been consuming water (the cylinders were not steam cleaned).

In y’all’s expert opinions, would any of you run this head or dispose of it and source another?
Those cresant moon shaped water jackets are close to the combustion chamber and when these cars sit with water in it, electrolosis happens there (allum against steel)......I may have a rebuildable head and also have one where all these openings were heliarced up with alluminum and would have to be resurfaced and holes drilled for the water openings (Creas ant shape not necessary....holes will do it)
 

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RootesRooter

Donation Time
Too bad we don't have more photos from all sides. The crescent in the one photo looks to be in very good condition. The chamber looks to have been opened up, but nowhere near a full Vizardation. If anything, its might be just enough to offset what appears to be medium prior skimming. Which leaves the pin holes. Are they fixable or not? Can they be ignored? I'm surprised we haven't heard more opinions from some welding experts here.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Too bad we don't have more photos from all sides. The crescent in the one photo looks to be in very good condition. The chamber looks to have been opened up, but nowhere near a full Vizardation. If anything, its might be just enough to offset what appears to be medium prior skimming. Which leaves the pin holes. Are they fixable or not? Can they be ignored? I'm surprised we haven't heard more opinions from some welding experts here.
I'm staying away from being a "welding expert" the pinholes to me look like cavitation in the casting... how porous the casting is.. I don't know.

"In theory" if the holes are not allowing gas or fluid to move where it shouldn't... they should be ok..

in the original photo they appear to be in the thin bridging zone of the gasket between the crescent cutout and fire ring...but not 100 % sure... that's a common gasket failure point..but usually because of enlarged water passages or over compression...

as we all noted...head doesn't look heavily skimmed and the water passage looks really good....so would be a good head to save
 
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