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1592 for Racing

Discussion in 'Rootes Racing' started by jdoclogan, Apr 20, 2020.

  1. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    On the oil system.. Period alpine racers often enlarged the sump. The sump on my racer is standard size and has seen some rumble strips in its time... Would be interesting to build a sump like the avid sumps.. Larger capacity with a shallower wider bottom and have it with a baffled sump and windage tray.

    Has anyone run an accusump in their alpine? I know the motors can starve the bearings during hard cornering.
     
    SoCal'beaming likes this.
  2. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    I have been a BIG fan of improved oil systems since watching my oil pressure go to ZERO, ZIP, Nada, ... much less than good,

    in turn 2 a Willow Springs back in 1979.

    I didn't start using an Accusump (trade name for an oil pressure accumulator) until about 1995.

    In the Alpine world, a bigger oil pan was a very early addition to Alcala's car.

    Steve added an Accusump, mounted under the dash, some time after.

    I AM A HUGE FAN OF ACCUSUMPS!!!!!!!

    There is one in every Alpine I run!

    I plan to put one in the next STREET Alpine I get going!

    With the BRILLIANT design (sarcasm) of the inverted oil filler, Alpines are in NEED.

    An accusump eliminates dry/no oil pressure start up issues, also.

    Did I mention I really like Accusumps?
     
  3. Warren

    Warren Bronze Level Sponsor

    Did I mention that I approve of your/our style? Many do not get even my intentional spellin and I have a lot of splainin to do :)

    I recall the Honda dealer telling me how I was potentially damaging the car as I did not allow them to change the oil and my filters lack the back flow and draining down valving, even though they are top of the line ones. I said sure I'll worry about that if the car is upside down, that'll work on my wife maybe you snake oil salesman.
     
  4. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    Warren, it's funny how your "She's gonna Blow" fits into this thread... Beam me UP....

    Also, on the subject of engine oiling, Back when Don Seffen(?) was running at Monterey, He was fighting oil issues.

    He was running an oversized oil pump and still having issues.

    Also back then Alcala was running his car and I was wrenching on it with him.

    I twisted Steve's arm to NOT use an oversized oil pump until such time as we REALLY needed it.

    Steve's SUPER sized oil pump STILL sets on the shelf, we have not needed it!

    Granted, Steve has not been running the RPMs Don ran...

    On a related note, One thing that is VERY marginal on the Love Bug Alpine is the oil cooler.

    I put a standard SV "Bottle Brush" oil cooler on the car and it's not enough!


    The Weekend Racer has a "Better" oil cooler, BUT ignorance is BLISS, I don't have an oil temp gauge on the car, YET.


    I hope to get to the point, Power and RPM wise that I TOO have problems with oil pressure with an Alpine.

    A strange wish but a typical challenge when getting MORE POWER out of an engine.

    ...Equally strange when GOOD oil pressure is a BAD thing with your Alpine....
     
  5. Eleven

    Eleven Platinum Level Sponsor

    May I ask why flat top pistons over the dished?
     
  6. jdoclogan

    jdoclogan Platinum Level Sponsor

    The 1592 engine in stock form (dished pistons) has a compression of 9.1:1. If you install a flat top piston you will increase that ratio because you have eliminated the volume created by the dish in the stock piston. The increased ratio, say 10:1, will mean the mixture of molecules are under greater pressure increasing the heat (molecules banging into each other more rapidly because they are closer together [less volume]) generated prior to spark ignition of the mixture. Think of the 10:1 like there are 10 molecules per unit of volume measurement instead of only 9.1 molecules per unit of volume measurement for the 9.1:1 compression. The increase will allow for a more explosive combustion creating greater downward force of the piston. Thus, some increase in horse power. There is a practical caution to increasing the compression to say 12:1 or 13:1 or 14:1 etc. The force created puts greater stress on the molecular make up of the engine components. That can be the cause of some of the spectacular and flaming engine blowups during drag racing events. Too much compression can be thrilling and very expensive.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  7. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    I have not checked for the availability of 1592 oil pump/parts in a long time,

    but way back when, new parts were few and far between.

    This was one reason we used a NEW SV oil pump, with a modified connection pipe

    and the second reason, a SV cam that was already ground to the desired specs, in the 1592s we have run.

    I can believe a 1592 oil pump and bigger screen may work better, in total, than a SV, with a TOO small screen.

    What is the availability of New 1592 oil pumps/parts?

    And what is the consensus of the world of 1592 oil pumps?
     
  8. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Dan,

    The 3 main pumps are always hard to find, about 2011 there were some new ones out of the UK.

    The year before i modified a 1725 pump to fit in my 3 main motor but i kept the drive gears and 1592cc cam.

    Are you thinking the larger round and shrouded screened early pickup might offer better scavenging than the smller full mesh pickup?

    Id Have to check the pump availability...but the 3 main pumps are always scarce
     
  9. bernd_st

    bernd_st Bronze Level Sponsor

    For the early oilpumps you can get the rotor rebuild kits in UK from John H. and Sue from West Midlands ( same parts origin). Rootes parts in Holland also just released a new rebuild kit (but no records regarding quality yet)...
     
  10. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    I have pretty high level of confidence that one could make a rebuild kit for 3 main or 5 main pump using available MGB pump kit sets.
    You just need to shorten and blueprint the rotor pair to the donor pump housing.
    I have made several high capacity pumps for 1725 engines doing this (and using the rotor pairs full size for the extra capacity).
     
  11. bernd_st

    bernd_st Bronze Level Sponsor

  12. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

  13. jumpinjan

    jumpinjan Bronze Level Sponsor

    I see no reason why a large pickup screen is desired more than a smaller one. If anything, the smaller screen will allow more oil pan baffling to help contain the oil down low in the pan during high acceleration. The 1725 pump already has plumbing for the inlet and allows a custom made pickup. One cannot readily do that with the 1600's pickup.
    Jan
     
  14. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    With NO experience with the 1592 oil pump/system, I can only guess about it's function.

    But there have been reports of problems with the 1725 oil pickups.

    The 1725 wraparound pickup can suck air from higher up and has been suggested to be too small when used with higher volume use.

    I'm just suggesting that with the 1592 screen surrounded with a metal cover that comes down around it completely,

    the chance of sucking air is less, along with a lower restriction screen.

    I DO know that screen size is a double edge sward.

    And compared with other stock engine oil pans, the Alpine pans ARE baffled, to a limited degree, just a bit low in capacity.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  15. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    One the of the NEW school rods I'm looking at is a Mitsubishi Talon 4G63T.

    This is a reasonable priced off the shelf part.

    This would use a custom piston and Big mods to the crank.

    The specs are:
    CtC 5.906
    BE 1.771
    SE .866
    BEW 1.038
    Wt 575 gr.

    One source #: Eagle CRS5900MB3D

    I'm still looking for other (New school) options.

    DW
     
  16. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    How much does a stock rod weigh?
     
  17. bernd_st

    bernd_st Bronze Level Sponsor

    Easy one:

    IMG_20190626_211637.jpg
     
  18. bernd_st

    bernd_st Bronze Level Sponsor

    and here the oldschool Chevy rod:

    IMG_20190626_211516.jpg
     
  19. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Dan there is a guy in NZ using modern toyota H beam performance rods .. Im trying to get his specs
     
  20. bernd_st

    bernd_st Bronze Level Sponsor

    Carillo/JE pistons may be able to provide you with a specific one off made set of modern lightweight H-beam rods /forged aluminium pistons. The rods will around 400g /pc. Quite substantial. However they are charging around 3k $ for the run. Just the question is whether you want to spend that much...
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020

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