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Sunbeam colours
- Thread starter Hillman
- Start date
Just like there are green whites and red whites, or so my wife tells me. I had a white truck that was in an accident and the previous owner had the bed replaced and re-painted. I bought the truck and my wife told me that the cab and the bed did not match --- I never really saw it. She told me that women have more cones in their eyes and they can see variations of color better than men (she told me a couple of other things, but I shall not repeat
).
).
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
Since this is Chit Chat there is a test that the TSA uses to fairly judge the ability of a applicant to see colors. They use an apparatus like you'd see in a eye doctors office, not a picture taken by a camera them presented on a computer screen. Maybe that's why the judging guys have established one point off for hue and two off for a different color then on a VIN tag, in a stock judging class. I have heard guys say Embassy black is another not great factory color, but having never seen an original paint car section that was not exposed to UV light I can't say. Another issue is the time of day a photo is taken cloud cover etc. notice the length of the shadows and the angle of the sun in the picture. Don't buys cars at night or in what photographers call Ferrari light
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
Bob the tried and true method, that I have looked at is. Find a piece of the car not exposed to UV light under,dash ,carpet or the hood latch plate heater box cover remove and take to computer match capable shop.
Or..
Use the fellow on this forum who sells the painted CD's Jan
Or contact a specialty restorer who already knows but may not give away his trade secrets..
Or use a long term client I have in Long Beach he does it by eye. Great guy but is a little slow occupational hazard of the business I suppose...
I have had owners say Porsche Guards Red is close to 39 but not to me. I see a difference in a Steve A or a Dale's paint job even when they are not side by side.
Different strokes for different folks
Different rods and cones in peeps eye balls
Or..
Use the fellow on this forum who sells the painted CD's Jan
Or contact a specialty restorer who already knows but may not give away his trade secrets..
Or use a long term client I have in Long Beach he does it by eye. Great guy but is a little slow occupational hazard of the business I suppose...
I have had owners say Porsche Guards Red is close to 39 but not to me. I see a difference in a Steve A or a Dale's paint job even when they are not side by side.
Different strokes for different folks
Different rods and cones in peeps eye balls
65beam
Donation Time
Warren,
I'm aware of how to come up with a color match. I've seen that done several times. I've used two shops for paint work of our Sunbeam restorations starting in 1993 and each one has their own way of doing the job with both having the same result. My question is this. Will your west coast judges have paint chips in order to check paint or how do you intend to know what is correct in order to determine points deduction on the paint?
I'm aware of how to come up with a color match. I've seen that done several times. I've used two shops for paint work of our Sunbeam restorations starting in 1993 and each one has their own way of doing the job with both having the same result. My question is this. Will your west coast judges have paint chips in order to check paint or how do you intend to know what is correct in order to determine points deduction on the paint?
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
Bob let me find my Ouija board and I'll try to figure out what any judge or person will do. I think I was clear in stating that it was made a more realistic one point for hue and 2 for color, but to be clear they didn't ask me. I am not doubting your efforts in duplicating the 86 color. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder or the judge, and if it was me I know I passed an actual test to rate my ability. With those testing results and a couple of wooden nickles I'll have two wooden nickles.
65beam
Donation Time
Warren,
It seems that the color of John's Tiger has taken us to a discussion that concerns judging of the car's paint which since it involves judging correctness you'll find the facts are that judging is something the SAOCA has never done, and I didn't duplicate the paint formula. It was Doug Sr. of Tiger Auto and the local paint rep. I'm sure the rep and Doug had the ability to mix the proper color and there are a few Alpines and Tigers painted this ugly green including some that I own. They've also mixed other colors. Tigers are not a concern of mine but the Alpine basics are similar. The big difference I see between Tiger and Alpine judging criteria is that a Tiger restored to the standards I have heard mentioned will raise the value of the Tiger but an Alpine restored to the same condition will never reach the value of the Tiger. To someone like the wife and I that collect Alpines and will have someone like Doug restore an Alpine to the same degree and for the same cost that he would a Tiger, the value is not a concern. They'll only be sold if we no longer can take care of them. FYI, her white Harrington came out of Doug's shop in July. The wife had Doug tint the midnight blue of her Alpine to suit her in order to get the depth in the paint. It required 9 color sanded coats of paint to get it to what it is. Maybe the paint will never suit some judges but the facts are that she has the satisfaction of her car winning the Alpine concourse at various times over Alpines owned by Steve A and Tom H . Are the Tiger judging specs a done deal?
It seems that the color of John's Tiger has taken us to a discussion that concerns judging of the car's paint which since it involves judging correctness you'll find the facts are that judging is something the SAOCA has never done, and I didn't duplicate the paint formula. It was Doug Sr. of Tiger Auto and the local paint rep. I'm sure the rep and Doug had the ability to mix the proper color and there are a few Alpines and Tigers painted this ugly green including some that I own. They've also mixed other colors. Tigers are not a concern of mine but the Alpine basics are similar. The big difference I see between Tiger and Alpine judging criteria is that a Tiger restored to the standards I have heard mentioned will raise the value of the Tiger but an Alpine restored to the same condition will never reach the value of the Tiger. To someone like the wife and I that collect Alpines and will have someone like Doug restore an Alpine to the same degree and for the same cost that he would a Tiger, the value is not a concern. They'll only be sold if we no longer can take care of them. FYI, her white Harrington came out of Doug's shop in July. The wife had Doug tint the midnight blue of her Alpine to suit her in order to get the depth in the paint. It required 9 color sanded coats of paint to get it to what it is. Maybe the paint will never suit some judges but the facts are that she has the satisfaction of her car winning the Alpine concourse at various times over Alpines owned by Steve A and Tom H . Are the Tiger judging specs a done deal?
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I can answer that, as I have been in communication with the group working on the specs and helping them with appropriate changes for Alpines. They are close, especially with respect to Tigers, but I don't believe anything has been finalized.
Barry
Diamond Level Sponsor
The only way to duplicate a factory original color would be to use the original factory painting equipment and methods, the original factory primer and the original factory paint with the original pigments made with the original equipment and methods. No post paint sanding or polishing, no clear coat, no nothing but factory paint and orange peel.
The bottom line is that no repainted car from the 50's or 60's is exactly the same color as when it left the factory.
Close maybe. Very close possibly. Almost certainly better. Exactly the same, no way.
The bottom line is that no repainted car from the 50's or 60's is exactly the same color as when it left the factory.
Close maybe. Very close possibly. Almost certainly better. Exactly the same, no way.
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65beam
Donation Time
Barry,
Well said! It would be impossible to duplicate the original paint for reasons starting with the fact that you could not buy the paint nor the out dated equipment. Doug used Deltron on the wife's blue car in 1995. It's no longer available. We have a sealed gallon of it but there's no reducer available.
Well said! It would be impossible to duplicate the original paint for reasons starting with the fact that you could not buy the paint nor the out dated equipment. Doug used Deltron on the wife's blue car in 1995. It's no longer available. We have a sealed gallon of it but there's no reducer available.
I sure hate to flog a dead horse, but if anyone (John included) has seen both the car and the picture, I'd love to know if they think the picture (on the SOACA site) looks to be the same color as the car. Damn, I love the colour I see on my computer from the website. I know that any of my computer, the SAOCA site and the camera that took the pic, might distort it a bit.
If so, I may go looking for 'single stage Deltron with clear coat called "original equipment black"'.