Valve adjusting

[Acollin]

1966 series V alpine

I have a few books and was reading up on valve adjustments. My series V owners manual says to adjust them when the car is very hot -- an older Clymers book says to adjust them cold.

I expect to follow the advice of my owners manual, but i was wondering what the differences were. I have adjusted valves on any collector vehicle i have owned with the motor cold. What makes my series V different?


Thanks all
Andrew

 

[Tom H]

Probably the aluminum "alloy" head, which expands more than an iron head. You can probably adjust them cold, but allow for the expansion when setting the lash. I think that means set them tighter when cold, so they will meet the spec when hot. But then I'd also check them when hot. After all the car does most of its running when hot, so it's most important that the valve lash be right when hot. And I'll bet you'll find them out of spec when hot if adjusted cold.

Tom

 

[Bill Blue]

Crane cams says that with an iron block and aluminum heads, subtract .006" from the "hot" setting. They don't say what to do with aluminium heads.
http://www.cranecams.com/pdf-tech-tips/mech-lift.pdf

I have adjusted valves "hot" with the engine running at idle. Is hell on feeler gauges and somewhat messy, but otherwise works well. It is quick, the engine does not get cold and it certainly eliminates the question of proper crank position.

Bill

 

[RootesRooter]

How do you adjust the valves with a feeler gauge with the engine running and know when they're right?

 

[Bill Blue]

How do you adjust the valves with a feeler gauge with the engine running and know when they're right?

Apply gentle pressure to the feeler gauge, just as you do when the engine is not running. The feel is the same, just interrupted.

Bill

 

[Greggers]

I would pay to see a live show of that. Bill, are you coming down for the Norcross show September 6?

 

[Bill Blue]

I would pay to see a live show of that. Bill, are you coming down for the Norcross show September 6?

I have never adjusted the valves (hot or cold, running or stopped) on an Alpine. Is there something that would make adjusting while running difficult?

Currently, we are not planning on doing the Norcross show. We are not really into car shows. Will there be something Alpinish that we should be aware of?

Bill

 

[Tom H]

I have not "adjusted" valve lash while running , but have often checked the lash while running. Just slip the feeler into the gap and push gently. If the gap is right the feeler will go in with some drag , just as Bill noted.

And I have often used a thin feeler - 3 to 5 thou and inserted it into the gap to see if the valve noise goes down when I insert it into that particular valve. A way to isolate a noisy and maybe mis-adjusted valve.

Tom

 

[Thor 1211]

valve adjustment

Well, I've done it 100 times with the engine running and not, but easiest and best results come from using a Gunson Click adjust. It presets the gap and even makes provision for a little dishing in the rocker surfaces.
Trying to slip a feeler between the valve and the rocker and screwing the adjuster and tightening down the nut down at the same time takes more hands than I have. Keeping a screwdriver on the adjuster as it bobs up and down takes more coordination than my old hands can muster. Besides, as stated, it will pound the s--t out of the feeler gauge. Heck, with the Gunson, sometimes I just do it for fun.

 

[Greggers]

Thor, I didn't have good luck with the Clickadjust. I found that when I was counting the clicks, I'd hear four or five clicks, then there'd be sections where there should've been clicks but I didn't hear anything. Do I count the non-clicks? Do I not count them? Either way, when I got to my number, the lash wasn't what it was supposed to be.

Bill, No, there's nothing special about this year's show. We're trying to get featured marque for next year's show, but it'll take some serious pre-registrations to get it. Of course, featured marque doesn't really mean much at that show.

 

[johnd]

While we're on the subject - how can one really tell when a valve is truly in the "fully open" position? It seems a little futile trying to adjust the valves down to to a .001" tolerance when it is so hard to eyeball when the rocker arm is as far down as it can go. I find that I can sometimes turn the crankshaft a good distance without noticing any discernible change in rocker arm position.

 

[Tom H]

John, You are a little confused. We adjust the valve lash when the valve is "Fully closed" not fully open. Your experience of little change when rotating the crank is right on. That's when the cam position has its round (not humped) side on the lifter. By going thru the steps in the manual we try to set the cam in position such that the valve on the Opposite Piston is Fully Open, which puts the valve we are adjusting as near to the middle of it's backside as possible, which, as you see, is a pretty wide area. So no need to get tooooo precise on the crank position when adjusting the lash.

Tom

 

[johnd]

Sorry Tom - I did not express myself clearly. The WSM says to adjust valve x with valve y "fully open". When I go through this procedure I concentrate on the position of valve y and try to locate the point where the rocker arm associated with valve y is as far down as possible.

 

[agmason54]

John D
All one has to do is watch the rocker arm push the valve down.Its so simple.I think the book says adjust No 1 intake with No 4 exhaust fully open or sometime like that making it almost idiot proof..
I set my intakes at ten thou. and exhausts at twelve
because Tiger Tom himself told me to.
My Coyote Blue is in Montana for the second time and l have never set the valves or pulled a plug.When l set valves l grind the feelers thin in case the rocker arm have wear.Wire feelers are best but l dont have any.If you dont install hardened exhaust seats yer jjust wasting your time settimg valves.
My sister thinks see saw your car after being delivery boy for my book.She said it looks nice but does not know bondo from peanut
butter.
Eek Sa gop Napiquan!
agm

 

[johnd]

Al - maybe my eyes are not as good as yours but I find it extremely difficult to tell when the rocker arm is at the absolute bottom (fully open) position - especially when we're talking about making an adjustment as fine as .001 or so. I would think that some sort of relatively inexpensive device or shop tool would be available for that purpose. Alternatively (and maybe this was your point), even though the WSM says to adjust the valves to a .oo1 tolerance, it really isn't all that critical.

 

[RootesRich]

Go to YouTube and do a search for Sunbeam Alpine Valve Adjustment. There you'll see Jim Ellis' Tech Talk on lashing the valve during one of the Invasions. Once you see the video, figuring out how the valves are fully open becomes much easier.

 

[Tom H]

John, OK so you have the right concept, good. But you also note that there is very little difference in the lash over a pretty wide rotation. So that was my other point. You don't NEED to hit the Fully Open position that closely. Get it close to fully open on valve y and you'll have valve x clearly on the large un-lobed side. Adjust it as best you can there. You won't have 0.001" precision, but close. And you will be able to tell the difference between 0.012 and 0.014. And it will not matter if you are +/- 10 Deg on the rotation as that low point on the cam is quite long.

Tom

 

[johnd]

Thanks Tom - I get it now - the unlobed side of the cam leaves a fairly large measure of leeway for adjusting the valve. Thanks.

 

[beamdream]

Thanks Tom - I get it now - the unlobed side of the cam leaves a fairly large measure of leeway for adjusting the valve. Thanks.

If you are looking to get the unlobed side of the cam in the best position here is another method you might consider.

Given that the firing order is 1/3/4/2 it follows that with #1 at TDC compression stroke then #4 will be at TDC exhaust stroke, this is a handy reference point because you will be able to see the #4 exhaust rocker closing and corresponding inlet opening as you move the crank around TDC.

By observing the #4 valve movements you can be absolutely confident that the #1 rockers are free and positioned correctly for adjustment; moving on through firing sequence you can do the same for cylinders 2,3 and 4.

 

[DanR]

That is a repeat....

If you are looking to get the unlobed side of the cam in the best position here is another method you might consider.

Given that the firing order is 1/3/4/2 it follows that with #1 at TDC compression stroke then #4 will be at TDC exhaust stroke, this is a handy reference point because you will be able to see the #4 exhaust rocker closing and corresponding inlet opening as you move the crank around TDC.

By observing the #4 valve movements you can be absolutely confident that the #1 rockers are free and positioned correctly for adjustment; moving on through firing sequence you can do the same for cylinders 2,3 and 4.

That is what Big Al was saying