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Stupid timing question

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by Van Bagley, Nov 22, 2020.

  1. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    When you pulled the motor to work on the clutch, did you remove the distributor and/or spark plug wires? Someone may have already asked: Are the wires in the correct firing order?

    Do you have anyone locally who could loan you a stock dizzy? I've used a Pertronix module for two decades without problem, but I have no experience with the full Pertronix dizzy. If it's smoking, that doesn't sound good. Is everything grounded?
     
  2. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Platinum Level Sponsor

    Most of the times I have had poor running after doing work the problem turned out to be vacuum leaks. It is hard to check for them when the car won't start, but if you removed the intake manifold as a part of your work, are you certain it is properly tightened back down?
     
  3. puff4

    puff4 Gold Level Sponsor

    Advanced Distributors: http://advanceddistributors.com/wordpress1/

    My recommendation (others may differ) is to go back to the factory setup - original dizzy, points, condenser and a good rotor... essentially to rebuild the distributor as new, but with the improvement of having a correct curve for today's fuels and your engine's current setup. At that point you can totally eliminate a distributor issue, given you properly install it after it's done. Of course, you'll want to replace your spark plugs and wires unless you've already done so in the past couple years.
     
  4. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    I will do
    I tossed the old dizzy years ago (2011) it had a really bad bearing or a wobble and when I bought the Pertronix I figured I had solve all of life's big questions.
     
  5. puff4

    puff4 Gold Level Sponsor

    I'm sure you could get a rebuildable Lucas 41077 dizzy from someone here (mine are all gone now). It can be basically a core - Jeff will rebush and rebuild it like new.
     
  6. sunalp

    sunalp Platinum Level Sponsor

    I've got a box of them. Let me know if you want one.
    Cheers!
    Steve
     
  7. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Van, I just looked at your thread from 10 years ago about your dizzy .

    http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/flame-thrower-180-off.15366/

    There were questions about the new Pertronix dizzy, firing order, dizzy possibly 180 out , ballast resistor, possible oil pump 180 out, etc. You never did post how you resolved it. Is your oil pump 180 out? Did you swap spark wires to solve? Did you leave the ballast resistor in ? What finally resolved your starting issues then? Might be a clue there about your present problem.

    Tom
     
  8. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Interesting to read my post from 10 years ago. Somethings never change.
     
  9. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Few pics.
    1) No spark and the dizzy stinks..
    2) Wire configuration
    3) TDC on the balancer and #1 piston is at the top
    4) Rocker cover off. # 1 exhaust mics at 10 intake: 12 as it sits
    Do I go back to a stock dizzy or replace the "Flame Thrower"?
     

    Attached Files:

  10. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    "The Pertronix dizzy started to smoke and it's wired correctly."

    Anyone else ever have their dizzy "sm0ke?" I still think your next step is to install a stock unit with points etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  11. husky drvr

    husky drvr Gold Level Sponsor

    Van,

    Any chance your engine to body grounds are missing or improperly installed? Have a good clean connection for the body to battery ground wire?

    If your pertronix smells, it's probably non-op. You should try and find a stock distributor to use until you have all your issues solved.
     
  12. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    I installed the Pertronix 10 years ago with no issues. The car ran fine until I pulled the motor a month ago to replace the clutch. My current thoughts are that when had the motor out and on an engine stand I did not pull the dizzy out. I had the engine upside down as I replaced the oil pan gasket. Once back in I could not get it to time correctly. I replaced the balancer which it needed. Still didn't run right. I pulled the cap of to make sure the rotor was on #1 at TDC which it was. However when I took the cap off I found oil inside the cap and some oil residue in the dizzy. With the engine upside down could oil have run into the dizzy causing a short?
     

    Attached Files:

  13. puff4

    puff4 Gold Level Sponsor

    Woops. Yeah, that looks toasted.
     
  14. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    I'm going back to a standard dizzy from Jeff
     
    puff4 likes this.
  15. puff4

    puff4 Gold Level Sponsor

    You just said the secret woid. George, tell Van what he's won!

    [​IMG]

    Van, you've won a lifetime of adjusting points, with the satisfaction that your car will run forever, so long as you have a screwdriver.
     
    RootesRooter likes this.
  16. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Well, you had "some" issues as noted in the 10 yr old thread with 18 replies. Still don't know what you did to get it running 10 years ago, Still don't know if you have a ballast resistor in the circuit. I don't think oil running into the dizzy while the engine was upside down, would cause a short. Oil is not very conductive. Did you leave the key in the ON position for a length of time? That could account for the blown Ignitor. In the photo of the dizzy with the cap removed I see the wire that is attached to the mounting plate. Was the other end of it still connected to the body of the dizzy to provide ground path?

    Puzzling. Original type dizzy should work. Good luck.

    Tom
     
  17. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    You said that all this trouble started after the engine had been taken out in order to work on the clutch. Assuming that you also took out the gearbox you had to undo the wire which connects the engine to ground. If you have forgotten to fasten that wire or if the wire itself or the connection to the body is not as it should be you could get the trouble you are experiencing right now as husy drvr already pointed out yesterday.

    Regards,

    Peter
     
  18. Van Bagley

    Van Bagley Gold Level Sponsor

    Peter, Thanks for the response. I didn't pull out the gear box when I pulled the motor. I think when connecting the coil I mistakenly connected the hot wire to the wrong side which fried the ignitor. Only takes a second.
     
  19. pruyter

    pruyter Donation Time

    Switching the positive and negative wires on a coil doesn't harm the distributor, the only consequense is a weaker spark.

    Regards,

    Peter
     
  20. beamdream

    beamdream Gold Level Sponsor

    It does if you have a pointless distributor, the modules are polarity sensitive.
     

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