Stock vs Modified

[Series6]

I'm getting real tired of the debate going on in the Stock section. A few weeks ago it seemed to be in good fun, but it doesn't appear to be that now. If this continues to be a site where those of us who choose to modify our cars are seen as making the breed unpure, maybe it's time to take our cars and support over to the site Jim E. was kind enough to start up while the SAOCA site was down a few months ago. I'm dead serious.

I'm unable to attend SUNI 09, and wasn't able to get to the Invasion, but the thought of driving to a SAOCA event half way across the country and to hear the stuff I'm reading on the Stock section? I'd be nuts...

 

[lgurley]

Thanks

If there is a debate it is one that no one will ever win but this is the place it should be discussed if at all. Thanks for (hopefully) moving the debate here.

 

[puff4]

In an effort to inject some humor, here's something I just came across that's REALLY modified....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadi...oryZ6149QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Bill Blue]

Nick, pay no attention. People buy and fix Alpines for different reasons, therefore resulting in different cars. I think it shocks some to discover that not everyone that buys an old car wants to return it to showroom condition or put it on show.

This will pass. It always has.

Bill

 

[alpine_64]

Nick,

This debate will always come up.. and it does in every club.. what would make you nuts is NOT going to an invasion or SUNI.. you find when everyone is together and its all face to face its just about having fun and playing with cars.

 

[65beam]

right on michael ! it's all about fun ! opps, my wife says to get off my soap box . another club that we belong to has written guide lines for stock,modified ,etc . if i remember right, a few changes for reliability are allowed for a stock car . carbs are one mod that is allowed .

 

[64beam]

Hi,

The problem is that you would not be told to your face, it would be a small group who don't have anything better to do (It happens all the time ). Someone said in a different thread that it should not matter if the car is modified, at least they are out for the public to see and hopefully gaining interest ( I think it was Jose, but not sure). As Bill stated, ignore them and just enjoy your car as much as we can. That is what keeps the smile on our faces .

Regards, Robin.

 

[Series6]

Gentlemen, thank you. I have been thinking about this and have decided that I love the looks of my Alpines. I love the fact that not everyone has had one. It's different. That suits me.

But although I do take my car(soon to be cars) to local shows, more than any other reason, I love to drive. For me, driving has been healing. It's been better than the shrinks I used to see. At times of personal challenge and crisis, joy and sorrow, I drive. It gives me time to think and to relax. It continues to give me space. The world looks better to me thru a windshield.

Consequently, I used to build my motorcycles to that purpose. I enjoy creating something. Now I work on my Alpines. I think they are beautiful. I hope my new one will be. I want them to handle, stop and accelerate. I want them to be responsive. I want them to be reliable. I like to drive late at night away from traffic. I drive for the love of it. I love the control of a well built car. I don't need it to go fast, but I do want it to fly, to dance with the wind. I'm learning and I like that process. I'm not as well versed in car restoration and construction as many on this forum.(as evidenced by my frequent dumb questions) But I trust what I build with my own hands. Fortunately, I get good advice from friends here and locally.

If a stock car pleases you, well then good on you. I commend you. Build a beauty and enjoy it. But don't grief me or get judgemental. Build and drive what suits you. I do.

 

[chris]

The modified debate has been talked about from day one on this board. It wasn't but two years ago that the modified section was added. The addition of the modified section wasn't to banish the v6'ers, but to give us a place to more easily gather and pass on information. I firmly believe that everyone is here for the same reason. We love these cars. Even the purist realize that every modified Alpine is one more on the road. One that without its modifications would just be rooting away somewhere. Besides, they like knowing that ever time we drop in a v6, they get more spare engine parts.

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Nick,

Please don´t even think of going anywhere. This has been discussed a lot over time, but we will never get purists to understand. If they don´t want to understand, they will live frustrated all the time, because there are more and more guys wanting to convert their Alpines. They don´t always go with the V6, but they want something that is more than a sunny Sunday car.

I was just looking on the web for 1939-1942 Willys coupes, and couldn´t find one that was stock. I would love to have a stock one, but most of them have been modified as race, or sudo race cars. The fact is that in a little while, there will be very few Alpines that haven´t been modified. The fact that I have just sold twenty kits, testifies to that fact. The purists will be unhappy because not everyone wants their preference, a stock Alpine. They are getting to be fewer purists as time goes on. We (cursed) modifiers are on the winning side. When someone buys a brand new Lamborghini, or other high dollar car, then takes it to someone to modify it, it is because each person wants his ride to fit his idea of what a car should be. This isn´t about making an old car new, it is about making your car what you want it to be. Most of us guys want to express ourselves, and this is a way some have to do that.

When you get to next year´s Invasion, you will find that almost everyone likes a well done conversion. Those who don´t, usually don´t say anything within ear shot. We can´t control what others think, so we just have to ignore their opinion (it is no longer important) and go on enjoying our bastards. I am looking forward to meeting you in person and seeing your second V6 Alpine. If you drive it out there (I highly recommend it), you will have a real blsat on the road. The car just loves high speed, long distance driving. You will LOVE it. Maybe I can fly into Phoenix and drive to the invasion with you. Now that would be a blast.

Jose

 

[V6 JOSE]

I would like to ask a question. Are there any Dark siders out there that, having owned a V6 or other non Alpine four cylinder, are unhappy with their converted car, that is if it has been done righ (no cut corners or unsafe modifications)? How many would rather have their stock Alpine back? It would be interesting to see how many guys have repented.

Please post your opinion about your experiences. I would like for guys to be honest about it.

Jose

 

[Series3Scott]

Nick - Dennis is right on with his response. Years ago I would have shouted "blasphemy" and "heresy" and gathered up the villagers with their pitchforks and torches to burn someone at the stake, but I've discovered the years have softened my opinion and now I find myself looking at the "modified" Alpines just as much as the "stock" Alpines. Heck, those of you who know me well also know my supposedly "stock" Alpine has a Weber carb, Pertronix ignition, radial tires, and Spax shocks. Guess what I've discovered? I LIKE TO DRIVE MY ALPINE! To me it's more important to see them out on the road with the owner having fun. Do I still cringe when I see someone hacking up two Series II Alpines because they have a better idea of how it should look? Oh yes. Do I still have "purist" leanings when it comes to how an Alpine should be restored? Oh yes. Do I shake my head in wonder when someone spends gobs of money to modernize their Alpine, and in my opinion take away the vintage feel of the car? Oh yes. But I've also discovered that these dark siders are great people, I enjoy their company, and most of them put a lot of thought into their cars. So while I may rib them from time to time I think the world is big enough for all of us to enjoy our cars. Unless you have a low-mileage survivor like John Boggis' car the rest of them out there are modified in one way or another. You'll notice that the SAOCA has NEVER published any guidelines as to what is stock vs. modified vs. personalized. When Ian and I first conceived this club we tried to write them, then just gave up in frustration, realizing "who cares anyway, let's just get together and enjoy our cars!".

Each club has its own personality, usually formed and shaped by the leadership of the club. Our intent was always to emphasize having fun with our cars, driving them as often as possible, and promoting the Sunbeam marque to a world that only knows Triumphs and MGs. Our Invasions are typically low-key, low-cost affairs with no real concours or judging and I think that appeals to the majority of the club's supporters. If someone is more interested in a trophy then just having fun there are other clubs out there for you to support. I've never understood someone who obsesses over every square inch of their car, polishing, cleaning, waxing, whatever, just to get a $5 trophy. We've all heard stories of people stuffing the ballot box just to win. I say BIG FREAKING DEAL - you can keep your trophies. I intentionally DON'T wash my car when I get to a car show. I consider a little dust or mud a badge of honor because it says I DROVE my car. If you choose to spend the next two hours emptying your trunk of all the cleaning products you brought along, then detailing your car, that's your choice. By the time you're done I'll have walked through all the lines of cars, enjoyed myself, and maybe picked up something cool at the autojumble. I never go to a car show expecting to win anything because I simply don't care if I do. (how did I get on to this rant? )

Anway, don't let it shake you - like the others said, this debate comes and goes. I'm guilty of starting some of them myself (forgive me everyone). Just contribute where you can, drive your car when you can, and let's move on to better things.

You may applaud now.

 

[Jim E]

Man I have not seen one of those Caddy campers in years, that is so freaking cool!

The Invasion is about the greatest car show on the planet, actually it is not much as far as a show goes but it is a heck of a get together. Maybe it is because there is not 300 cars and a judging.

Stock vs modified..... I like them both get a lot of joy just looking at the cars. Usually at the events the only cars that get attention are the really well done stock and the engine transplant cars. For me it is the pack in the middle of these two that are the most fun. The beast that just drove 400 miles and you are looking at it thinking how the heck did it make it and will it make it back. Or the car in the corner no one noticed that has never been messed with oh the paint is faded and the interiour is a little worn but WOW it has rubber mats. Or maybe I just get bored easy I mean how may well done restored cars can I stand to look at, catcch myself walking down the row... ho hum another nice car.... then Doug pulls in with a unrestored S3 survivor [by the way who has that car now?] or a cloud of blue smoke rolls in the driver sitting in a monkey fur interiour and my interest peaks!

On occasion at events I have been standing near one of my cars and heard someone say less than nice stuff even when I had the dcoe motored SV. Oh well such is life.

 

[65beam]

jim ,
that car is still in the area .the owner had it at mid ohio. it has had a new paint job and looks real nice .

scott, i have to agree with what you are saying.look at my series 4 ,it gets driven and the kid probably drives it harder than i want to know about. then there is my wife ,who has me doing another restoration of her blue car .parts of it are at doug's, parts are at the plating shop in harrisburg,parts are at a polishing shop in dayton ,martha's carpet is being replaced,etc. what do you do with someone like her ? i live with both sides of it .but it's fun! one thing about it is that i would not be afraid to drive them cross country .

 

[Series6]

Hi Nick,

Maybe I can fly into Phoenix and drive to the invasion with you. Now that would be a blast.

Jose

Jose,

You don't want to do that.... I don't put radios in my cars. I sing. By the border, you'd be homicidal.

Now....Assuming I can get the first car long distance reliable....

Anyway, thank you guys for your comments. I appreciate it.

 

[Nickodell]

During my Jaguar days (ended in 2005, before I went nuts and broke), the Jaguar Owners Club forum had a separate section, called LUMPS, devoted exclusively to engine swaps, most often Chevy small-blocks. The general forum was open to everything else, stock or mod.

During the 70s I occasionally used to take my TransAm to the local drag strips (Maple Grove, PA., or Atco, NJ) and compete. It was classed "Showroom Stock," and the only "mod" you could make was taping the headlights and removing hubcaps if they were original equipment.

 

[skywords]

During my Jaguar days (ended in 2005, before I went nuts and broke), the Jaguar Owners Club forum had a separate section, called LUMPS, devoted exclusively to engine swaps, most often Chevy small-blocks. The general forum was open to everything else, stock or mod.

During the 70s I occasionally used to take my TransAm to the local drag strips (Maple Grove, PA., or Atco, NJ) and compete. It was classed "Showroom Stock," and the only "mod" you could make was taping the headlights and removing hubcaps if they were original equipment.

Nick What happened to the saying at the bottom of your posts that said. Damn it it's my car and I will modify it anyway I want." Or something to that effect.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Nick - Years ago I would have shouted "blasphemy" and "heresy" and gathered up the villagers with their pitchforks and torches to burn someone at the stake, but I've discovered the years have softened my opinion and now I find myself looking at the "modified" Alpines just as much as the "stock" Alpines.

Thanks Scott! It makes me very happy to know that I now have your permission to put a V6 in my S3. I was going to leave it stock, but now...

 

[V6 JOSE]

My turboed Alpine didn´t have a radio in it when I owned it either. I loved listening to the exhaust burble, while running down the road. The V6 Alpine is so entertaining, that you don´t get bored driving it.

Jose

Jose,

You don't want to do that.... I don't put radios in my cars. I sing. By the border, you'd be homicidal.

Now....Assuming I can get the first car long distance reliable....

Anyway, thank you guys for your comments. I appreciate it.

 

[Nickodell]

Nick What happened to the saying at the bottom of your posts that said. Damn it it's my car and I will modify it anyway I want." Or something to that effect.

I thought Graham Chapman ("silly, silly") looked better.