Roller Bearing vs Graphite Throwout Bearing

[67Survivor]

Hi Mike,

That photo puts me at ease as to wiggle in the fork.

The bearings in question are definitely steel. I have four bearings in my possession right now. The original graphite bearing that was in the car when I purchased it, as well as a brand new replacement graphite bearing that I intended to use until I discovered that I needed to replace the pressure plate, and the graphite bearing is not compatible with this new style of plate. I also have the bearing that was in the car when the brand new pressure plate failed, as well as the replacement for it that Rick sent me with the replacement pressure plate. These two bearings are the ones side by side in the last few photos.

Apparently, this flat fronted steel roller bearing is intended to contact directly onto the fingers of the pressure plate. This concerns me as there is no return spring on the Alpine ir Tiger clutch, meaning that there is always some contact between the bearing and the fingers. In my opinion, the graphite bearing just seems far superior for this application. My reality is that this is what is available, a reported to be working in other cars with no issues.

I may add a small spring to prevent the bearing from sitting on the fingers. I am also considering fabbing up a small bracket to limit the movement of the fork to just what is needed to actually disengage the clutch as well as prevent the spring from pulling it too far back. I will also be using neutral at lights rather than sitting with my foot on the clutch. although, if this setup fails again, I am quite sure I will find a seriesV pressure plate somewhere that can be used.

 

[hartmandm]

The return spring is on the clutch pedal. However, based on your observation of hearing a chirping noise when the clutch is not engaged, it sounds like the throw out bearing is contacting the pressure plate fingers a tad. I expect adding a spring and limiting the pull-back distance will defeat the self-adjusting feature. But maybe that is ok with your setup, as you aren't expecting wear in the throw out bearing. Good luck!

Mike

 

[husky drvr]

67Survivor,

I've been trying to find an article I read at one point that might have given some insight into your clutch issues - no luck. I did find this article. Maybe it will have some info that can help with your problem.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0809clt-how-to-diagnose-your-own-clutch-system-problems/#

What I think I recall from the article I was looking for is that when the diaphragm spring in your pressure plate broke, it lost most of its tension and changed the height of the spring fingers. The real challenge will be to determine what caused the spring to break - a defect or another problem.

HTH

 

[hartmandm]

Do you have the original pressure plate that mated to a graphite bearing? You should be able to get the pressure plate rebuilt. I've compiled these clutch rebuild sources from references by folks on this forum:

Clutch component rebuilds:

http://www.southbendclutch.com/index.html (Source: George Coleman April 2015)

Fort Wayne Clutch http://www.fortwayneclutch.com/ (5 years ago prices: Disk $50, pressure plate $50 + shipping.) (Source: Todd Nordby April 2015)

Kip Motor www.kipmotor.com (Source: I used for disc rebuild)

Valley Friction, 11817 Sherman Way, N. Hollywood 818-765-5174 will do the clutch disc. was about $75? (Source: Jimjordan2 August 2016)

Southland Clutch, 101 East 18th St. National City, CA 800-310-2588 Will rebuild the Clutch cover/Pressure plate. They were not cheap, but did a nice job, replacing the pressure pad, rebuilding the plate, resurfacing etc. $125.00. (Source: Jimjordan2 August 2016)

 

[65beam]

bearing

Rick does carry the graphite bearing and also new clutch discs. I found a box containing these parts on the front porch last Friday. These are new items, not rebuilt. I'm dropping our series 5 at Tiger Auto on Friday. The wife decided it was time to change the clutch and throw out bearing along with seals. The clutch and bearing have been in the car since 1995 so it's time. We'll soon know how good these new original style parts are.

 

[67Survivor]

Rick does carry the graphite bearing and also new clutch discs. I found a box containing these parts on the front porch last Friday. These are new items, not rebuilt. I'm dropping our series 5 at Tiger Auto on Friday. The wife decided it was time to change the clutch and throw out bearing along with seals. The clutch and bearing have been in the car since 1995 so it's time. We'll soon know how good these new original style parts are.

The original parts are great, you are fortunate to be able to use them still. If the original style pressure plate was still available, I'd buy one and use it with the original style clutch disk and graphite bearing that I have.

HTH, that is a great article. I wish it covered what can cause pressure plate fingers to break. Hopefully it is just a defective part and not a bigger issue.


Mike, I do still have the original pressure plate, but the mechanic that installed the clutch the first time said that it was beyond rebuilding. There is a great transmission shop in town that shortened my driveshaft for the overdrive and resurfaced the flywheel and replaced the ring gear for me. I think I will take my old plate by there and see what they have to say about a rebuild.


The fact is that more and more of us are going to have worn out pressure plates over the next few years. With the seriesV plate not being available anymore, the options are limited. I'm hoping to get to the bottom of whether this new system will be reliable so that we will all know whether it is a viable solution going forward.

Thanks again everyone for your input,
Rob

 

[65beam]

bearing

The original parts are great, you are fortunate to be able to use them still. If the original style pressure plate was still available, I'd buy one and use it with the original style clutch disk and graphite bearing that I have.


There are sources in the U.K. for parts. If possible you sometimes have to bite the bullet to get the right parts. And you're right, I've been fortunate that I've been able to hoard both new and used parts over the years. It makes living with several cars a lot easier.

 

[pruyter]

Hi Mike,

Indeed there are suppliers in the UK that are able to supply the original series V pressure plate. I myself have, a few months ago, put in a new series V pressure plate in my brothers Alpine and I bought the pressure plate from Rootes Parts Service in my country the Netherlands.
This pressure plate is fabricated in Germany and works really very well.
The type of diafragm pressure plate which is shown in your pictures is a type I have never seen before and it really looks different compared with the orginal type.
So if you really want an orginal type there are at least possibilities overseas.

Regards,

Peter

 

[67Survivor]

Hi Peter,

Great info thank you. Did the pressure plate you got from Rootes look like the original? With the "Flat triangle" attached to the fingers for the bearing to ride against? It really does seem like the way to go for this clutch style.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Ken Ellis]

Pics of original for reference.
(This car was in a chicken coop fire before I got it, hence the rust...)

(I'm not sure what the exclamation point/yellow triangle is all about...)

 

[pruyter]

Hi Mike,

The pressure plate (made in Germany) I bought from RPS is looking exactly like the original from Laycock which I took from the Alpine.

Regards,

Peter

 

[todd reid]

Just a thought.....I have heard horror stories about premature clutch wear when bell housings and clutch arms and pedestal parts get mismatched. Since you have had problems with multiple clutches, it might be worth checking this angle out before putting in another unit.

Good Luck

Todd Reid

 

[67Survivor]

As an update for anyone interested;

I installed a small spring to pull on the clutch fork just enough to make sure that the pressure plate and the release bearing are not in contact when the clutch pedal is not depressed. This eliminated the chirping while the car was in neutral.

I adjusted the setup at the pedal to limit the forward motion of the clutch fork so that it seems to no longer be moving the pressure plate too far and putting the bearing out of alignment with the pressure plate. This has taken care of the chirping while the clutch pedal was fully depressed. Unfortunately, adjusting it to the point of not chirping is right on the edge of not fully disengaging. I think that with a little more adjusting, I will be greatly improving the lifespan of this setup.

I will still make sure to have an original setup on hand to swap in when this one does fail.

Cheers all, and thanks for the input,
Rob