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One more Miata motor install
- Thread starter Toyanvil
- Start date
Good luck with the next step.
I'm serious about that comment. The cut down Ford 8" has been a problem from day one. It was narrowed by Moser and has always been hard on wheel bearings. I assumed I had warped the axle out of alignment while welding on the spring pads. While that is entirely possible, the real problem was they had welded the bearing carriers onto the tube off center. So I cut them off, made alignment rings (light press fit) to fit inside the tubes while welding. For whatever reason, that was a complete failure. So I made up rig like yours and positioned the carriers so the axle was square with the carriers. Partial success. Warping did occur, so using a hacksaw, I cut the carriers about 90% off, leaving a hinge. Resquared the carriers and welded. Then recheck the squareness and apply additional weld to warp them back to "true". That process seems to be working.
This has been ongoing over 80,000 miles and I'm gone through about ten bearings.
Bill
I'm serious about that comment. The cut down Ford 8" has been a problem from day one. It was narrowed by Moser and has always been hard on wheel bearings. I assumed I had warped the axle out of alignment while welding on the spring pads. While that is entirely possible, the real problem was they had welded the bearing carriers onto the tube off center. So I cut them off, made alignment rings (light press fit) to fit inside the tubes while welding. For whatever reason, that was a complete failure. So I made up rig like yours and positioned the carriers so the axle was square with the carriers. Partial success. Warping did occur, so using a hacksaw, I cut the carriers about 90% off, leaving a hinge. Resquared the carriers and welded. Then recheck the squareness and apply additional weld to warp them back to "true". That process seems to be working.
This has been ongoing over 80,000 miles and I'm gone through about ten bearings.
Bill
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
Bill & Guys, I've heard some horror stories on the mod's to the FORD 8" rear axle housing.
What I fear most is having the same problems with the bearings wearing prematurely. With 80,000 miles one set would not be of concern, However, with the number you mention, I am reluctant to go with the 8".
Toyanvil is such a perfectionist, perhaps He could start producing some?
Could there be a "jig" (Drawing) available for a "local" to utilize for the modifications required?
DanR
What I fear most is having the same problems with the bearings wearing prematurely. With 80,000 miles one set would not be of concern, However, with the number you mention, I am reluctant to go with the 8".
Toyanvil is such a perfectionist, perhaps He could start producing some?
Could there be a "jig" (Drawing) available for a "local" to utilize for the modifications required?
DanR
Chuck Ingram
Donation Time
I never did anything to my 8 inch rears. Of course I did not have to look stock
Did have to do the bearings on the 62 as the Miles were on it. My transmission guy recommended it so had the whole rear emd gone though. Did the same for the Lister and feel I'm good for the next 20years
Did have to do the bearings on the 62 as the Miles were on it. My transmission guy recommended it so had the whole rear emd gone though. Did the same for the Lister and feel I'm good for the next 20years
Dan, don't be afraid of the 8". There is nothing wrong with it's design or manufacture. The problems come when it is poorly modded. The problem is amplified when the subsequent "mechanic" (me) is not aware of or does not understand all the issues. I think the problems are the same regardless of axle brand. Toyanvil is using a Mazda axle.
Working on the theory Toyanvil has not done this before, I am trying to give him a heads up about the lesson I learned the hard way. He should, at a minimum, check the axle for squareness before putting it under the car. A potential problem I see of his setup is that it appears he will run the shaft from bearing to bearing without the third member in place. That assumes the third member is accurately centered with the tubes. Maybe he knows it is. I check mine by inserting the test shaft into the third member.
Bill
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
AS always, Thanks for the input....' not doubting the axle, just the modification and getting everything"correct". Haven't found anyone close by that says they can do the mods.
I have a couple of the Mutt II rear ends and would like get one for the BW35 GT w/4.0 V6 before I tear up the SV rear.
I have a couple of the Mutt II rear ends and would like get one for the BW35 GT w/4.0 V6 before I tear up the SV rear.
Toyanvil
Gold Level Sponsor
The biggest trick is to use a lathe, my friend Paul has been doing this for 20 years. We cut off the stock carriers by cutting the welds and faced the tubes, the Mazda carriers slide on about .375 into the tubes. The jig ends are machined the match the bearing with a tight fit and the shaft is a hardened well pump shaft. Once I get the carriers located on the axle (need to clear the calipers on the leaf springs) we will tack weld it with the jig installed then remove the jig and check it on the lathe. This is a picture of it being checked before we started cut it down, you would be surprised how many are not straight from stock.
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Moser just cut a section out of the tube an inch or so from the end and welded it back together. It would interesting to see how they kept it in alignment. But of course they didn't, which is the problem. Maybe I should say how they attempted to keep it in alignment.
It is interesting to see how much knowledge/talent is available in obscure locations. There is one place in Indiana that narrows axles, most states don't even have one. You have a neighbor that does it! Does he cut and respline the shafts?
Bill
It is interesting to see how much knowledge/talent is available in obscure locations. There is one place in Indiana that narrows axles, most states don't even have one. You have a neighbor that does it! Does he cut and respline the shafts?
Bill
Hey Ken, glad to see you're back, hope you stay a while. Done anything with the EFI?
Bill
Toyanvil
Gold Level Sponsor
I think most places that cut the tube will just slide a smaller tube inside as a sleeve leaving a small gap to weld. Mine will be done the way the factory did it. It's funny how many rear axles my friend repairs that were narrowed by big name shops. The last one was .375 off face to face and would have looked like a VW from the back, we check it before powder coating it and had to cut it back apart and re-weld it. The one thing he does not have is a set-up to re-spline the shafts, I will be sending them to Dutchman Motorsports.
To me, it's wild that a big-name shop like Moser would make something with such terrible tolerances. I did a google search about that and found more stories about issues with run-out. Apparently, when the original owner/founder of the Moser company passed, the quality went downhill. The same thing happened at a company that worked on carburetors, a company called Pony Carbs. The original owner/founder passed and the quality fell off a cliff.
The odd thing is that it seems like a competent lathe operator can make axle shafts that are true and a metal fabricator can jig up an axle housing with its bearing carriers square and true to the differential. I can picture using a tool steel tube that runs through a hollow differential installed in a axle housing and through the wheel bearing housings. Stand it on its end to prevent gravity from bending the tool steel tube, tack weld the wheel bearing housings in place. When that's done, set the assembly back on a bench to make it easier to weld on, remove the hollow differential and tool steel tube, finishing tig welding the wheel bearing housings, give the housing a slight bend to create some toe-in and you're done.
Am I missing something?
The odd thing is that it seems like a competent lathe operator can make axle shafts that are true and a metal fabricator can jig up an axle housing with its bearing carriers square and true to the differential. I can picture using a tool steel tube that runs through a hollow differential installed in a axle housing and through the wheel bearing housings. Stand it on its end to prevent gravity from bending the tool steel tube, tack weld the wheel bearing housings in place. When that's done, set the assembly back on a bench to make it easier to weld on, remove the hollow differential and tool steel tube, finishing tig welding the wheel bearing housings, give the housing a slight bend to create some toe-in and you're done.
Am I missing something?
Toyanvil
Gold Level Sponsor
Small up-date, and I do mean small.
I had time today to remove my rear axle and mock-up the XR-7 axle, and then reinstall the one I am using. I still need to tack on the brake line brackets and do final welding and than powder coat. But it looks like everything clears and will work.
Setting clearance.
I had time today to remove my rear axle and mock-up the XR-7 axle, and then reinstall the one I am using. I still need to tack on the brake line brackets and do final welding and than powder coat. But it looks like everything clears and will work.
Setting clearance.
Toyanvil
Gold Level Sponsor
Brake line and sway bar mounts all tacked on, they will be TIG weld on final.
I cut this rear end down to 52 inches, 1/2" more then the rear end I have now. I would like the tires out just a little more. I have been driving around with 1/4" wheel spacers and cardboard taped to the inside of the wheel well, so far no rubbing. now I can look at the parking brake.
I cut this rear end down to 52 inches, 1/2" more then the rear end I have now. I would like the tires out just a little more. I have been driving around with 1/4" wheel spacers and cardboard taped to the inside of the wheel well, so far no rubbing. now I can look at the parking brake.
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