New Sunbeam - No Electric

[tomscobra]

Have a 67 barn find. Been sitting for a while and no electric with fully charged battery. I made sure the + post was clean and the - is clean attached to the body. I have not tested anything yet, but I suspect it is a ground issue.

Seems like there should be a ground run to the engine block, instrument panel and maybe a better ground to body.

Has anyone run additional grounds like above?

Also, any hints on finding my electric issue?

Thanks.

 

[Ken Ellis]

Welcome to the show!

Well, grounds are a good place to start looking.

The factory ground to the driveline is a braided strap on the transmission mount. It should go from a chassis attachment bolt to a trans attachment bolt, bridging ground across the rubber component of the mount. Many folks augment that with a battery-cable ground between the chassis and block in the engine bay.

A few questions... have you confirmed that it is a 67 by the serial number? Sometimes titles are dated 'when sold' rather than 'when built', and earlier cars may retain their original positive ground.

Conversion is possible, so confirmation is important here.

The main "hot" (we'll presume positive for now) cable goes from the battery to a starter solenoid at the rear corner of the engine bay, by the master cylinders if it's left-hand drive. From there, it spreads out in all its Lucas splendor to the (2) fuse block, starter, etc.

Once you've confirmed the actual polarity, and ground integrity at the battery and on to the chassis and engine, you can start working along the supply path to see where it vanishes. A trouble light is fine, and convenient for this.

Do you have a manual? (Check out the post for new forum members for info on those.) Check out the Technical Data pulldown menu. There's also a nice color wiring diagram available on the web which can help a lot. Google up 'Alpine color wiring diagram' and it should show up.

Others will be along to help, too. I'm sure we'll get you powered up soon.

Good luck!

 

[agmason54]

sunbeam no power-bum conections

Assuming you have good connections at the battery the next power point is in the solenoid.The whole car gets it power from there. If you have power at the solenoid then wiggle the red and white wire from the key to the soleniod then try the key.Try the head lights or push the button on the solenoid to spin the engine. If you still have nothing then buy a test light. I just put a battery in SI that sat since 1966. In a half hour I saw all the lights, horn and turn signal come to life by just wiggling wires.
Al
ps I run a ground wire from the battery right to the bottom starter bolt.

 

[tomscobra]

Serial Number

Is the serial number the tag in the engine compartment firewall on the right side?

If so, the number is B395012142 LRX

Color code 39

 

[Ken Ellis]

Yes, it is. Your serial number is SV, so you're good to go on negative ground.
Take a moment to study your diagram, get your trouble light, and start tracing power, watching for loose/rusted connections, etc.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

Hi Tom, welcome.

Barn finds are great to look at and hear the story behind them. If you get a chance to post some pics and tell us how you found it, please do! Thanks.


Mike

 

[Chuck Ingram]

Yes that is the best ground.Any part of the engine block will do.I would get rid of that woven ground strap.Age will have caused corrosion you can not see in the weave

 

[tomscobra]

Battery

Ok, checked the battery today and no charge, so I guess new battery time.

Also, the woven ground strap looks past it prime, so I will replace it also.

Dumb questions, I was looking for a battery on Oreilly AP and they do not have a sunbeam so I looked up MG and it shows a 6Volt battery.

Do these take a 6 volt?

Thanks.

 

[65beam]

electric

sunbeams are 12 volt. you need a group 27 battery with the negative terminal on the left.

 

[tomscobra]

Have Electric now - now trying to start it.

Ok, replaced the battery, installed new ground wire. I routed it into 2 locations, first routed a smaller wire (10 g) to the stock location and then routed a large wire to the trans mount.

Everything is working, all lights and accessories (Fan, fuel gauge, etc).

The car turners over, but will not start. I confirmed that it is getting spark from the coil. I drained the gas tank, luckily it only had 2 gallons.

Both carbs (stroms) are leaking gas out the bottom. I assume this means the fuel pump is working, but maybe carbs need rebuild.

I took some pics, but not sure how to post.

I will put new gas in tomorrow and try to start it again.

Please let me know if you have any tips on the carbs.

 

[Bill Blue]

Don't know about the carbs, but make sure your getting spark at the plugs. Sometimes the Lucas system has a hard time getting the spark from the coil to the plugs.

Bill

 

[Chuck Ingram]

No spark when everything else should be working.

A common problem is the wire from the condensor terminal in the distributor to the coil.it is fabric woven insulation and over time becomes bare and grounds out.Therefore the coil will never fire if this wire shorts out to ground.Ground is any bare metal in the distributor or the housing

if you have a timing light with an indution pick up you can check if the coil is firing by using the coil to distributor wire.If firing the timing light will flash even when the engine is turning on battery only.This will aslo work to check that spark is going to each plug

I'm ressurecting a 37000 mile ford flathead and on first attempt it fired and died.
Would not fire again.Replaced the wire and end of problem

 

[Ken Ellis]

I recommend you turn your attention away from generating sparks and focus on stopping the carb fuel leaks. It's usually o-rings.

 

[tomscobra]

Almost started yesterday

When I first got it turning over yesterday, it almost started. Kinda sputtered then would not do it again. Then noticed the carb leak. Plugs could be fouled by the bad gas. There is still gas in the fuel pump bowl. The gas I removed looked like dark apple juice.

I am going to pull the plugs and make sure I am getting spark to all cylinders and to make sure they are ok.

Whats the best source for parts for the carbs? Also, are there hints / tips for rebuilding the strombergs?

Thanks.

 

[puff4]

Joe Curto is THE best source of carb parts for Zenith-Stromberg and S.U. carburettors. He is also the best expert for technical advice. There are, however, many other sources for rebuild kits, like the usual Sunbeam suppliers, for example.

http://www.joecurto.com/

As to tips and tricks on rebuilding, John Twist's videos can be quite helpful... though I will say I don't always agree with him on ALL things, he's usually a safe bet.

Here's #1 in the series of rebuilding Zenith-Strombergs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5GveCj3Hck

This is also a very well documented rebuilding website:

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Carbs/CarbsI/CarbsI.htm

The above deal with MG and Triumph variants, but they are largely the same.

 

[tomscobra]

Carb/Fuel Pump rebuild and weak spark

Ok, I am going to rebuild the carbs and fuel pump, any suggestions or hints please.

I pulled the plugs out to check for spark and the spark looked really weak. First, I had to ground the body of the plug to get it to spark at all. I guess that is normal as it would be grounded to the block.

The plugs were sparking where the body of the plug was touching the chassis and a smaller spark on the business end. Just did not seem to be a very strong spark based on other vehicles I have tested this way.

Please advise if I need to check anything else electrical.

Thanks.

 

[Chuck Ingram]

Ok, I am going to rebuild the carbs and fuel pump, any suggestions or hints please.

I pulled the plugs out to check for spark and the spark looked really weak. First, I had to ground the body of the plug to get it to spark at all. I guess that is normal as it would be grounded to the block.

The plugs were sparking where the body of the plug was touching the chassis and a smaller spark on the business end. Just did not seem to be a very strong spark based on other vehicles I have tested this way.

Please advise if I need to check anything else electrical.

Thanks.

What kind of spark do you get from the coil.Should be a good bright spark

 

[tomscobra]

Coil Spark

Yes, the coil spark is good.

Maybe I need to replace all the plug wires and wire between the coil and dist?

 

[RootesRooter]

Give the carbs a shot each of starting fluid. If it starts briefly then you know the carbs are the main culprit. If its been sitting a long time, changing the spark plug wires is a good idea too, as well as new points and condenser.

Coincidentally, I recently found out why my Series V had been running down on power for many months. I had removed and inspected the Strombergs once already but the second time around I pulled the fuel inlet needle valves (actually Grose Jets). Lo and behold there were several tiny pieces of plastic behind each valve, which I'm sure were alternately plugging or holding open the Grose jets. I discovered that the inside of the plastic T-fitting between the carbs had decomposed, apparently while sitting on the shelf during a 5-year restoration. Pushing a Q-tip thru the T dislodged several dozen more tiny chunks. The T was not original - probably only 10-12 years old.

So, when you rebuild the carbs, if the T hasn't been replaced by a PO by a pair of hoses or a brass fitting, I recommend replacing the T or going to brass fittings. Sunbeam Specialties is currently out of T's but Classic Sunbeam has them in stock. I also recommend Grose Jets, as they outlast the original needle-style by a wide margin. I think Vic Brit carries them.

 

[tomscobra]

Fuel Line

Thanks.

That hint on the inlet needle valve is a good 1 to check out.

I was planning on replacing the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carbs. I was going to try and score a new brass T fitting locally and use a 1/4 brake line for the main line from the pump to the T.

I found this fitting at Oreilly that might work.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...530&categoryRedirect=N1166&pt=N1166&ppt=C0248