Laycock for a '67 or 5 speed?

[philt]

Just placed a deposit for what should be a nice '67 Alpine. My last was a 64 with a 5 speed. I did not do the install. So now I know the extra gear is a real asset.
1. Any guidance about finding and installing a Laycock o/d or
2. Is there a tried 5 speed conversion kit available ?
Phil in Nashville

 

[DanR]

Phil, George Coleman has a very nice 5sp in his Alpine. He drives it about every day. Bet he will chine in shortly.

 

[alpine_64]

There used to be 2 bellhousing kits for Toyota 5 speeds.

The factory overdrive is a nice option. You can get a full bolt in with speedo, relay, tailshaft wiring harness and switch and rebuilt OD trans from jeff haworth or John roesby in the UK. Many here have bought them and they ship over.

An OD with 3.89 diff makes for nice highway cruising. Add a 3.7 diff or go 14" wheels and some 195/60 tyres and an alpine will shame a stock tiger for freeway comfort.

 

[philt]

Thanks guys, soon as I collect the car we will work up a development and improvement plan which will likely include a 5speed or O/D.
Here in the States, it is hard to avoid the Interstate ( Motorways) and cruising at 3500 rpm is a bit trying. My last Alpine had a Toyota 5 speed and I convert the MGB to one. Makes highway driving much more pleasant.
Phil

 

[Jimjordan2]

I think if I had to do it over again, I would go with the Toyota 5 speed. I like to keep things stock, and I'm kind of a purist, but if you want to enjoy the drive, upgrade either way. (Actually, now, I would have gone with the whole "Darkside" conversion.)
An O/D setup is going to run you a couple of thousand plus install, etc. etc. I have no problems with my O/D, (leaks) but there's a lot more that could go wrong with the Laycott than with the Toyota, including electrical components, switches, age, etc. etc. Plus they have more potential of "marking their territory" when parked on the driveway. So, if I were to spend the $$$ again, I would spend it on the Toyota. 50+ year old design versus a much more recent design with probably better gearing etc. etc.
Just my $.03 worth. (inflation)

Would a 3.7 make much of a diff. than the 3.89? Yes, I'm running a 3.89 with O/D.

 

[DanR]

I have a 65 SIV OD W/1725.

But nothing like my Blue Boy V6 with T5, Power steering and A/C

 

[Bill Blue]

If I was to do it again and wanted to keep the Alpine as "stock" as possible, I'd swap the rear axle and use the factory 4 speed. A 3.55:1 ratio combined with 185-60 x 15 tires reduces revs to 3116 @ 60 mph. 3600 @70 mph. Unless a person is doing multi hundred mile days, that would be good.

Bill

 

[Paul A]

I had a Toyota 5 speed in Ol Blue with the stock engine. It was a big improvement over the 4 speed. I also once owned a Series 5 with an overdrive. It was okay and served me well, but I prefer the Toyota gear box. I now have a Toyota 5 speed behind my 2.8 V6. Well satisfied. I wish my Tiger had a 5 speed....maybe some day.

 

[DanR]

Paul, What did you do to mate the Toyota to the 2.8?

 

[George Coleman]

I have a 5 speed in my Alpine its a t-50 from a Toyota corolla . I used parts from Dellows in Australia, they make the bell housing and I got the trans from here in the states. I love it I wish I could get another 3.70 gear set for my Alpine it dose ok with the 3.89

 

[philt]

Hello All,
Took delivery of my "67 yesterday. Nice car, great seller and surprisingly pleasant experience with the transporter. Guess that makes me a new-old member.
So far the only issues are the crazy tach, found a NOS unit on ebay.
Burned out turn signal lamp, foggy tripod headlamps
Split drivers seat seam, so a bit of shopping with Sunbeam Specialties
May need to rethink a 5 speed. The T5 toyota is getting rare. If memory serves the clutch ( throughout bearing pressure /friction plates were volvo) and the bell housing conversion from Australia means a budget of over $5,000 hmmmm..

Anyone know of a supplier of diffy gear sets? Thinking the 3.70 might be more comfortable highway ratio.

Looking forward to the cold months in the garage with a few small items and my new toy.
Thanks to the membership for their help in finding this one.
If in Nashville area feel free to contact me for assistance, garage time or a cup of coffee.

Phil Trusty pwtrusty@yahoo.com

 

[DanR]

Phil, Several Guys on this Forum can help with your tach.

Tom H and Mike hartman are both very competent,

Tom H just re calibrated another for me. If you buy from E-bay it may need calibration so beware of that little tid bit.

 

[philt]

As soon as my ebay find arrives , I will ask Tom to calibrate.
My 67 has a "Battery"gauge while my earlier Alpine had a Voltage . Is the Battery gauge correct ?

 

[alpine_64]

Alpines only used optional lucas ammeters.
Series I/II white vertical needle +/-30
Series 3/IV red vertical needle +/-30
Series V red vertical needle +/-35

 

[v13311]

Alpines only used optional lucas ammeters.
Series I/II white vertical needle +/-30
Series 3/IV red vertical needle +/-30
Series V white vertical needle +/-35

I believe you meant to write "red" vertical needle for the Series V.

 

[alpine_64]

I believe you meant to write "red" vertical needle for the Series V.

Indeed.. Did a copy and paste and forgot to edit the Red for SV. Will correct it to prevent any misinformation ;-)

 

[Tom H]

Phil,

Just a note about adding a Laycock to an existing tranny- it requires a different mainshaft inside the tranny and those mainshafts are hard to find. Best bet - for an OD - is to find a tranny with OD on it, like the rebuilt one I bought from Jeff Howarth 15 years ago. The 5-speed sounds like a good way to go, or maybe the 3.70 axle is enough.

And BTW, a stock 67 Alpine, w no OD, almost surely has a 4.21 rear axle and 13 in wheels, so 3500 RPM will be "cruising" at just 55 MPH! I installed a 3.89 axle and OD (and 13X65/180 tires and indeed I cruise 70 mph at 3500 RPM. No problem at 3500.

Regarding the NOS tach, I'm eager to take a look at it. I am 99% sure the key electronic components in it have aged the same as all the 50+ ones I have seen that were installed in our Alpines. If it's truly NOS, and has been setting on a shelf indoors all these years, hopefully the inside paint and the rubber seals are still fresh and not all flaky and crumbling.

Interesting, that I cannot think of any other 50 year old component in our Alpines where NOS would not be essentially as good as new. Maybe gaskets and seals might age, but not much else. But most 50 yr old capacitors and resistors have almost certainly shifted in value or failed outright.

Tom

 

[George Coleman]

Hello All,
Took delivery of my "67 yesterday. Nice car, great seller and surprisingly pleasant experience with the transporter. Guess that makes me a new-old member.
So far the only issues are the crazy tach, found a NOS unit on ebay.
Burned out turn signal lamp, foggy tripod headlamps
Split drivers seat seam, so a bit of shopping with Sunbeam Specialties
May need to rethink a 5 speed. The T5 toyota is getting rare. If memory serves the clutch ( throughout bearing pressure /friction plates were volvo) and the bell housing conversion from Australia means a budget of over $5,000 hmmmm..

Anyone know of a supplier of diffy gear sets? Thinking the 3.70 might be more comfortable highway ratio.

Looking forward to the cold months in the garage with a few small items and my new toy.
Thanks to the membership for their help in finding this one.
If in Nashville area feel free to contact me for assistance, garage time or a cup of coffee.

Phil Trusty pwtrusty@yahoo.com

If you get just the pieces that you need there is no need in spending $5000.00 on the conversion. the trans is still available the only thing that may be hard to get would be the trans. end slip yoke you have to be careful that you get the right one. You have to use a Toyota disc and the pressure plate can be a MGB as well, remember this is after you change the fly wheel over to a early Alpine!

 

[philt]

Thanks George,
I installed a Toyo 5 speed in a MGB a few years ago. The entire engineered kit came from a firm near Chattanooga and it was a breeze to install.
Maybe I should look for a younger, capable wrench to take on this 5 speed swap. Getting a bit older and left my lift in my previous house. But if I am to drive it much then need to . at least, find 3.89 axles.
Phil

 

[alpine_64]

If you have the standard wheels a switch to 14" wheels with 195/60/14 rears or evwn 195/65 helps lengthen the gearing rhat with a 3.89 will be a decent step.