Ethanol the right way?

[RootesRacer]

If you run just E85 you can lean out the car and get better gas mileage, why they have a new program for my Impala computer controlled fuel injection.
Donna

You cant lean the mixture out much becuase the combustion runs really hot, and you cook the motor. The saving grace for many newer cars is that they use a wideband O2 sensor, which allows the engine management to see the actual air fuel ratio, and to richen it up (since E83 will run really lean on a gasoline map) so that the engine doesnt fall completely on its butt. Such setups that CAN run on E85 or are flexfuel compliant, dont work as well (bad throttle and transient response) unless the engine management has been mapped for both E83 and gasoline, and has the fuel constitution sensor.

 

[Nickodell]

You cant lean the mixture out much becuase the combustion runs really hot, and you cook the motor.

That's interesting; I never would have thought it. I suppose it's because the ethanol molecule contains its own oxygen: C2H5OH. Also, there will be less cooling through latent heat of evaporation compared with gasoline.

 

[RootesRacer]

That's interesting; I never would have thought it. I suppose it's because the ethanol molecule contains its own oxygen: C2H5OH. Also, there will be less cooling through latent heat of evaporation compared with gasoline.

Its got nothing to the extra O2 that ethanol brings to the table, its ANY combustible fuel ran in a spark ignition engine, when it runs with a surplus of oxigen (as compared to stoichiometric) burns hotter and melts internals easier.

Its like the difference between a carburizing flame and a oxigen rich flame, which one do you weld and cut with?

 

[65beam]

ethanol

donna,
it's not politics , it's just good business and as i said it's turning the inventory that is the problem .my cost of the fuel that i sell to my customers is EFT'd at 10 days from the time that my trucks pull the fuel. my cost of a load of gas at todays price is 24000.00 .we set 10 day terms to the customer and with some of the oil companies the terms are 7 days . if you had to move product to pay the bills, would you want to tie up your money in something that one customer wants to buy ? with the cost of money today,that's not a good idea. cash flow is the name of the game . i have spent many years in the oil business and many of those years in upper management,so i have heard all sides including the fact that it's politics .it's not ,it's how you have to do business in todays market .

 

[Nickodell]

Its got nothing to the extra O2 that ethanol brings to the table, its ANY combustible fuel ran in a spark ignition engine, when it runs with a surplus of oxigen (as compared to stoichiometric) burns hotter and melts internals easier.

I misunderstood your previous post. I thought you were indicating that leaning out an engine on alcohols was more likely to cause overheating and internal damage than on hydrocarbons.

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Your asuming one customer?

donna,
it's not politics , it's just good business and as i said it's turning the inventory that is the problem .my cost of the fuel that i sell to my customers is EFT'd at 10 days from the time that my trucks pull the fuel. my cost of a load of gas at todays price is 24000.00 .we set 10 day terms to the customer and with some of the oil companies the terms are 7 days . if you had to move product to pay the bills, would you want to tie up your money in something that one customer wants to buy ? with the cost of money today,that's not a good idea. cash flow is the name of the game . i have spent many years in the oil business and many of those years in upper management,so i have heard all sides including the fact that it's politics .it's not ,it's how you have to do business in todays market .

Oil companies Say's 7 day, that's not a got you by the kahunas attitude from I own you Oil company?
Like I posted read all the vehicles that are now coming with E85 options your assuming just one customer? Did you not realize that most states give you all kinds of TAX incentives to install E85? Biggest pork barrel out there to tap into!
Sorry for me since Missouri is selling E85 all over the state now its not just business its 80% political. The problem is to many C stores just like yours without an open mind, don't want to cause problems, don't want the oil company to pull the fuel you do have coming away, can't say I don't blame you but from a consumer view, it's like going to Burger King and they just did away with the Whopper, AGH!

Donna