Engine cranking too slowly to start

[Ohiojohn]

Finally, got it out late last night. The trick for me was to turn the steering all the way to the right. It opened up the area enough to slide it out far enough to clear the end of the starter and then drop it down and out.

Now to get it checked....really hope this is the issue.

 

[Tom H]

There ya go! Told ya you could do it.

There's a starter in stock at O'Reilly auto parts in Maple Heights ,

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...starter_01920_1204894_2294&showStores=true#at

Tom

 

[Ohiojohn]

There ya go! Told ya you could do it.

There's a starter in stock at O'Reilly auto parts in Maple Heights ,

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...starter_01920_1204894_2294&showStores=true#at

Tom

Thanks for all the help and ideas. I forgot to add that I had to unbolt the slave cylinder in order to get the line out of the way to drop it all the way through.

Appreciate the link on the starter in Maple Heights. I had Autozone in Akron order one for me already though. I won't be able to work on it again until Sunday anyway...spending the weekend at Boy Scout camp with my son. I had planned to listen to the Buckeye game in the garage while working on the Alpine.........

 

[Ohiojohn]

After all the work getting the starter out and the new one installed, I am having the same problem as before. The engine cranks fine with the plugs out, but will not even make a full turn with them in. I replaced the ground from the block to the transmission support, and the ground from the front of the block to the frame.

I removed the valve cover and manually cranked the engine via the fan. everything up top was moving fine. Should I be able to compress the valve springs by applying pressure with a dowel? I always thought if the valve was in the open position the spring should be manually compressable? Mine are not, very stiff but wanted to make sure here before going any further.
Any other ideas why it won't turn with the plugs in?

 

[Tom H]

If you can rotate the engine via the fan, I think the engine is NOT the problem. Compressing the valve spring is very hard to do. A spring compressor with BIG levereage is usually required.

Have you tried bypassing the starter solenoid to see if that cranks the motor?

Tom

 

[Ohiojohn]

Tom,

That was my next move. I just lay a screw driver accross the terminals correct?

 

[Ken Ellis]

Or, use a jumper cable from battery positive to the lead going to the starter. That will eliminate the batt. cable from the equation, too, and let you work your way back thru the circuit systematically.

 

[Tom H]

I can't remember if both main terminals are on the same side so you could use a screwdriver across them.

Tom

 

[Nickodell]

Put a DC voltmeter across from a good ground to the terminal where the hot cable enters the starter and have someone crank the engine over with the starter. If you get less than 11v (preferably higher) you could have a problem in the supply, almost certainly a dirty or corroded terminal somewhere upstream. Remove the ground connection at the battery for safety, then clean the following with 100 grit paper and brass wire brush: the terminals and cable lugs at the starter, solenoid (both in from battery and out to starter) and both battery terminals and posts. Smear a thin coating of dielectric grease on all before reassembling.

Replace the battery terminals in this order: Hot first, then Ground. Obviously, keep clear of moving parts in the test.

If you do the test first by using the starter casing as your ground, and get an OK voltage, then by grounding to the car frame and get a low one, the problem is probably in the grounding strap(s), either broken, frayed or with corroded terminals. The return current is finding a different path than the intended ground.

 

[Ohiojohn]

She is alive, ran for five minutes and then I shut it down. Would not start again though. Pulled the glass bulb on the fuel filter and everything was covered in sediment. Afraid I smell a varnish smell, and lots of noxious fumes from the carbs (smoking). If bad gas and crud from the tank made it thru the system what's my next step? can I just drain the tank again, flush them with good gas and blow out the lines? Or am I in for carb rebuilds and profession tank cleaning? I really want to keep it running after all the work.

 

[Bill Blue]

Is the crud composed mostly of black flakes? If not, simply drain the tanks and refill with fresh gas, or possibly dilute the old gas with fresh. If you have black flakes, that means the tank liner is coming off. The only solution is to pull the tanks, remove the old liner, reline and reinstall the tanks.

It does not have to be done professionally, but it is a pretty big and messy DIY job. DIY will take an entire weekend and cost about a hundred bucks for materials, but the liner (I used the POR 15 stuff) seems to be of good quality.

Bill

 

[Ohiojohn]

Is the crud composed mostly of black flakes? If not, simply drain the tanks and refill with fresh gas, or possibly dilute the old gas with fresh. If you have black flakes, that means the tank liner is coming off. The only solution is to pull the tanks, remove the old liner, reline and reinstall the tanks.

It does not have to be done professionally, but it is a pretty big and messy DIY job. DIY will take an entire weekend and cost about a hundred bucks for materials, but the liner (I used the POR 15 stuff) seems to be of good quality.

Bill

Bill, seems to be brown not black. Looks like rust. I dropped the metal line and drained what was left in the tanks. Going to check the line to make sure there is no online filter and then blow it out with compressed air. Then pull both tanks and rinse them with clean gas. Hopefully this does the trick. Anything else I should consider?

 

[Bill Blue]

Bill, seems to be brown not black. Looks like rust. I dropped the metal line and drained what was left in the tanks. Going to check the line to make sure there is no online filter and then blow it out with compressed air. Then pull both tanks and rinse them with clean gas. Hopefully this does the trick. Anything else I should consider?

Pulling the tanks is a pretty big job. I would rinse each tank in place, put it back together and enjoy a few weeks of local joy riding. If the rust problem continues, the tanks are going to have to be relined. I would hold off until the season is over. Enjoy the nice weather we have left while getting a feel for the car and what it may need.

Bill

 

[Tom H]

John, What finally solved the slow cranking problem? Inquiring minds want to know.

When my starter failed last month in Hope BC, the rebuilt starter I bought locally there would not crank fast enough to start. Afer checking all the grounds, solenoid, etc, I decided it was a poorly rebuilt starter. Took it back and the next one I bought at an O'Reiley's in Seattle was fine.

Tom

 

[Ohiojohn]

John, What finally solved the slow cranking problem? Inquiring minds want to know.

When my starter failed last month in Hope BC, the rebuilt starter I bought locally there would not crank fast enough to start. Afer checking all the grounds, solenoid, etc, I decided it was a poorly rebuilt starter. Took it back and the next one I bought at an O'Reiley's in Seattle was fine.

Tom

Tom,

The PO painted the block and the engine compartment and the ground was sitting on top of the paint. I removed the bolt and ground wire then removed some paint with a dremmel (only thing that would fit in the space). It started on the first try. it's always something easy in the end.

One issue I found last night was that the cylinder closest to the fire wall is buring hot. The spark plug had a ton of carbon on it. The other plugs looked fine. Any idea's there? Could it be the timing or just chalk it up to an engine that did not run for 20 years?

Thanks,

john

 

[todd reid]

Engine Cranking too slowly

John,
Alpine engines are known for accumulating crud in the cooling system - particularly at the rear (closest to firewall). If your car has been sitting a long time, this is definitely a possibility.

Your engine may benefit from a cooling system flush, although the best/correct way is to pull all the cooling plugs (and usually the engine) to gain access to the cooling passages. This is not an easy job - try the flush first, but if the engine is coming out for any other reason, then by all means clean your block.

 

[Ohiojohn]

John,
Alpine engines are known for accumulating crud in the cooling system - particularly at the rear (closest to firewall). If your car has been sitting a long time, this is definitely a possibility.

Your engine may benefit from a cooling system flush, although the best/correct way is to pull all the cooling plugs (and usually the engine) to gain access to the cooling passages. This is not an easy job - try the flush first, but if the engine is coming out for any other reason, then by all means clean your block.

Hi Todd,

Whats the best way to flush the cooling system in an Alpine? I bought a kit to flush the lines on another car, but you had to cut the cooling lines and insert a pipe with an inlet on top the you conected a hose to. I really don't want that setup rigged in the Alpine. Is there a way to do it without cutting up all the coolant lines?

Thanks,

John

 

[todd reid]

Engine Cranking too slowly

Let me start by stating that I am by no means an expert on cooling flushs.

I would probably start by going to my favorite autoparts store and asking them to recommend a product - read the label & follow the directions. You might also talk to your family mechanic if you have one. I am sure you can find products that you can use and flush with a garden hose - just be careful to follow the instructions and avoid leaving puddles of antifeeze for the neighbor's dog to drink!

I am familiar with the setup you referenced - cutting the cooling hoses and inserting taps. If you hoses are old, you might consider using that system to get things clean, and then replace the hoses when you are done.

Since the Alpine has an aluminum cylinder head and an iron block, it is good practice to change the coolant every couple of years to keep the level of corrosion inhibitors at optimum levels. You don't want to run straight water for extended periods of time.

 

[Tom H]

If the #4 cyl is running noticeably hot, I suggest you pull the freeze plug in the rear of the block and use a coat hanger or other stiff wire to dig into the junk probably piled up between the cyl wall and the rear of the block. I think it's possible to do this without pulling the engine. You could probably replace the freeze plug with a "repair" type rubber plug that can be inserted and tightened in with a wrench.

Tom