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Electric Rad Fan

JJames

Bronze Level Sponsor
I have been looking at adding an electric rad fan (pusher) to aid in cooling my SV when bad luck has me stuck in summer traffic. Most of the applications I am finding appear to attach the fan to the front of the radiator with "zip-ties" through the fins. This somehow seems like a bad idea to me, particularly on a 50 year old radiator. Do people actually fasten directly to the rad or do they custom make brackets?

Thanks
 

Ken Ellis

Donation Time
Zip ties here. Good so far -- 6 years or so...
It's a great improvement, and keeps temps right at center scale for general driving on hot days. Couple needle widths higher in (long) parades on hot days.
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
I have been looking at adding an electric rad fan (pusher) to aid in cooling my SV when bad luck has me stuck in summer traffic. Most of the applications I am finding appear to attach the fan to the front of the radiator with "zip-ties" through the fins. This somehow seems like a bad idea to me, particularly on a 50 year old radiator. Do people actually fasten directly to the rad or do they custom make brackets?

Thanks


The aftermarket fan sellers go with the simplest and cheapest possible "one size fits all" mounting system.

The "zip tie" mounting is not the way I would go, but it does work.
 

Toyanvil

Gold Level Sponsor
I will also not use zip tie mounting, I built mounts to hold the fan using the radiator mounts.
RIMG0002-L.jpg

RIMG0004-L.jpg
 

Ken Ellis

Donation Time
Thermo, also stuck between fins. Setpoint is adjustable. It was all from Jegs -- I think I posted part numbers a while back... let me check. Fan is smaller and lighter than show above, as it's auxiliary, not primary.

If you're still looking, the one I used is from Jeg's, #52130
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/52130/10002/-1
$42. Specs at the link.

Controller is a Derale #16759. www.derale.com in LA.

And here's a link to a previous thread on this, where Chris's source info is also discussed:
http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/electric-fan.25860/#post-176504

(He and I are not the only ones who have done this before, of course. We do probably represent the range from really great (<-- Chris) - to exceptionally adequate solutions, however...)
 
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DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
I gave some thought to installing an electric fan when I first started doing the V6 Conversion because it seemed as if every one was having trouble with cooling their Modified Alpine. Decided to wait until I could actually test drive in various weather conditions. Sure glad I did because with what I did has paid off with a cool ride.

Number one reason I did not want an electric fan was a lack of space in front of the radiator due to the A/C condenser. With me running a stock 4 blade Ford Fan as a puller does not allow for an electric fan nor is it needed with my setup.

As I have stated before my radiator is copper, has 3 tubes and best of all 17 fins per inch.

I elected to run 185 thermostat mainly thinking the flow of water earlier would also aid in cooling.

I did design and build a 2 piece Fan Shroud attached to the radiator.

Closing off the openings by the horns as has been recommended by numerous Alpine owners assisted in blocking unwanted air.

Then as an after thought I cut some flat rubber about 7 or 8 inches wide and long enough to run from side to side of the crossmember, fastened under the bottom of the radiator for additional blockage of air getting around the radiator is probably another added benefit to keeping it cool.

On the hottest of days in Sunny SC, whether in or out of traffic or sitting at idle for various times, it has never overheated even running the A/C.

Maybe I am just lucky:)
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Here is an interesting post I found on the Rootes (post vintage) Parts Service web site

Here are 10 tips to address with any overheating problem:

1. Many cars overheat from more than one problem. Often we assume a bigger radiator or a similar big gun solution will fix our problem. Maybe it will, but often by so doing you are addressing the symptom and not the cause. Many cars over the years pick up little annoyances that contribute to overheating. Individually none of them would overheat your car. Collectively you have an overheating problem. Look at the whole car when addressing overheating problems.

2. Before you do anything else, tune up the car. Many overheating cars are out of tune, Be dead nuts certain you are not running lean or with retarded timing.
A lean fuel mixture will overheat your car right now. If your engine runs lean you can chase your tail looking for problems in the cooling system and never figure it out. Be sure you are not running lean. The easy way to do this is richen your jetting a couple of steps. If the overheating is better, you're on the right track.

3. There is a lot of misinformation about ignition timing and cooling. Retarded timing contributes to overheating. Advanced timing helps cooling. Bump up your initial timing a few degrees and see if it helps the car run cooler. It's an easy and practical fix. Of course, if you advance enough to enter pre-ignition or detonation you will start to overheat. Detonation contributes to overheating. If you start to detonate back off the timing. Overheating cars should always run vacuum advance. Vacuum advance helps cooling.

4. Cars can overheat from coolant circulation that is either too slow or too fast. When your car left the factory it probably had the correct speed for the water pump. Over the years things change, pulleys are swapped, rear end ratios are changed, tire sizes vary. Your car may not have the right circulation speed for the water pump. Remember cars can overheat from circulation that is either too fast or too slow.

5. Look at your airflow. Be sure your shroud fits properly and is sealed to the radiator. What'd ya mean you don't have a fan shroud??!!?? If not, obtain a shroud before you do anything else. You can adapt a shroud from the junkyard or many after market suppliers can provide you one. Seal the shroud to the radiator with weather stripping.

6. The best all around fan is the factory design with a thermal fan clutch. Flex fans aren't as versatile, Solid fans pull lots of air but are noisy and suck horsepower when you don't need the extra cooling.
If you need extra air flow there are many electric fans on the market that can help. Be sure your charging system is up to the task of handling the extras amps from an electric fan.

7. Reduce the antifreeze in your coolant. A 50/50 mixture does not help cooling. Either run 100% distilled water with water pump lubricant or distilled water with about 15-20 % antifreeze. Either mixture will cool better than 50/50 and still lubricate the water pump and provide corrosion protection for your system. Remember when the weather turns cool to switch back to 50/50.

8. Use a better grade of gas. If you are not running premium and you are overheating, step up to the top grade. If there is no improvement, try advancing your timing a few degrees. The extra octane will allow you a little extra timing without getting into detonation. Many older cars and particular muscle cars were designed for better gas (4 or 5 star, > 98 octane) than is now available. If you are detonating on today's gas you can be overheating. Remember not all detonation is audible.

9. If you are running an automatic, install a quality after market transmission cooler. Cooling the transmission is added work for an already overtaxed radiator. Do not mount the cooler in front of the radiator where it will overheat the cooling air. Rather mount it to one side.

10. Notice your driving habits. The more gas you burn the more heat the engine produces. Jackrabbit starts followed by hard braking, constant acceleration, flogging the engine uphill, all burn lots of gas. Yes, these are performance cars and that's why we love them. We're not saying don't enjoy your car, but if you are constantly into the accelerator, you are producing extra heat that the cooling system has to get rid of.

Compared to the expense of buying parts in a hit and miss fashion to solve your problem, investing in researching the origin of the issue is a downright good investment.

Arnoud Malherbe

(text based on information from various sources on the internet)
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
I would add the most obvious one... Test the radiator... Old cars often have blocked tubes form sediment from the bmock, corrosion from lack of inhibitor etc... Rod the radiator and make sure its all clear.

Run a gano filter and see whats in the system. Make sure there are no leaks and the radiator cap is seating correctly.

Make sure there is no air in the system.
 

65beam

Donation Time
After doing suggestions mentioned by Michael fill the system with a pre blended 50/50 ethylene glycol coolant (green ). These coolants are blended using deionized water and contain rust and corrosion prohibiting additives along with antifoam additives. These additives protect all metals including aluminum. Normal life is two years or 50,000 miles.
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
What was the question again?

Oh yeah, something about mounting an electric fan.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
You are partially right there Barry! The Original Poster started with: "I have been looking at adding an electric rad fan (pusher) to aid in cooling my SV when bad luck has me stuck in summer traffic."

It appeared to me that He was also including :Cooling his Series V. Please forgive me getting off subject.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
I guess we all chimed in on the cooling system suggestions as we dudnt ask what we normally do when somone asks about electic fans... "Are you having overheating issues?"

Alpines with a good condition stock system are generally fine, especially s3 onwards.

Often people add fans to bandaid a problem ( blocked system, air, non seating cap) or.. In some cases... Fix a non existent one.. Temp gauge not reading right due to wiring, faulty or wrong sender.

I guess dan was just preemptively suggesting checking the system first.

As for the original question.. For my tiger i have some adapted generic mounts off the raditor mounts.

On my alpine i just run a return system.. And even in australian summers while it gets warm in heavy slow stop/start traffic it stays within range .
 

steven

Donation Time
The trouble with zip ties, many radiator shops have to repair, replace radiators that were fitted with zip ties, they compress the tubes if fitted to tight.
on removal you have a damaged radiator
 

Ken Ellis

Donation Time
The zip ties for mine actually go thru just the fins, and not around the tubes themselves at all. I suppose it would be possible to bend stuff with them, but the plastic would break before any major bending could take place. The ties are not connected in a loop, as they're not standard-issue zips. They're more like 'double-ended' zips, with a separate 'keeper' that you pull the tie thru. So the tie only goes from front to back, not front to back to front again. Still a zip tie in spirit, of course.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Ken, thank for that detail! I was not aware that there are special "zip ties" for this that do not squeeze the tube or fin.

Tom
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
The special ties also use a large diameter washer for compression against the fins. The washer is large enough in diameter to cover enough of the fins to eliminate damage to the fins (Normally):)

Ideally, the way Toyanvil did his is the way to go.
 
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