Dual brake master cylinders as in 2 anyone do it?

[loose_electron]

Still Googling to find the unicorn, though.

Plenty of Unicorns on EBay.

I see the F10 master cylinder available but without the fluid reservoirs. Where did people get those?

 

[260Alpine]

Tilton and Wilwood fit. Or you could do these remote:

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/160-modifications-originality/289042-girling-brake-cans.html

 

[Toyanvil]

Plenty of Unicorns on EBay.

I see the F10 master cylinder available but without the fluid reservoirs. Where did people get those?

I would just like to find one, even on ebay . And I just looked and did not see even one. P.S there were 862,263 results for Unicorns

 

[260Alpine]

Some Tiger guys have used the Ford Courier/Mazda pickup master cylinder. Lots of them on Ebay:

 

[loose_electron]

I would just like to find one, even on ebay . And I just looked and did not see even one. P.S there were 862,263 results for Unicorns

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-130-42202/overview/

According to them thats Nissan F10 compatible.

 

[Toyanvil]

I have one on order from Summit, it shows "not in stock at the factory" so I am
still waiting, I did receive all the other parts on that order last week. I was wrong, it would have been a lot easier to find a Unicorn.

 

[Toyanvil]

Some Tiger guys have used the Ford Courier/Mazda pickup master cylinder. Lots of them on Ebay:

View attachment 9575

Thank you
I will look into that, with the Mazda motor I have room for the lines on the right side.

 

[DanR]

Toyanvil, Not trying to start anything, Just would like to know if these Master cylinders would be compatible with various fluids?

 

[Barry]

Toyanvil, Not trying to start anything, Just would like to know if these Master cylinders would be compatible with various fluids?

Compatibility is not an issue.

As has been discussed several times, DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 are all the same basic chemistry, are compatible with each other and should be OK for any cylinder seals made in the last 60 years.

DOT 5 is silicon based and is not really appropriate for street driven cars. Show cars that are only driven on / off a trailer and display cars that are basically never driven are a different situation.

Just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[DanR]

Barry, To show my stupidity, I never knew there was a difference in the DOT 5 stuff . Like you posted Dot 5.1 and Dot 5 ?

 

[Barry]

Barry, To show my stupidity, I never knew there was a difference in the DOT 5 stuff . Like you posted Dot 5.1 and Dot 5 ?

You have a lot of company; very few people know that DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are completely different critters.

DOT 2 became the automotive standard sometime in the early 1900's.

A mixture of castor oil and alcohol; either butanol (red) or ethanol (yellow)
Dry boiling point = 374º F.
Wet boiling point = 284º F.​

DOT 3 was developed during WWII for military use and became the automotive standard around 1950.

A mixture of glycol & glycol esters
Dry boiling point = 401º F.
Wet boiling point = 284º F.

​

DOT 4 has been available since the mid-80's and has been the standard brake fluid for U.S. made cars since about 2006.

A mixture of glycol & glycol esters + borate esters
Dry boiling point = 446º F.
Wet boiling point = 311º F.​

DOT 5 was originally developed for military use (during the early jet age ???) and provides more consistent viscosity across a wide temperature range as well as being non-hygroscopic / hydrophobic (does not absorb water).

At least 70% by weight of a diorgano polysiloxane (aka, silicone)
Dry boiling point = 500º F.
Wet boiling point = 356º F. The wet boiling point is specified in the standard, but does not actually exist because DOT 5 does not absorb water.​

Is NOT compatible with DOT 3 / 4 / 5.1 brake fluid; putting silicone brake fluid in a system that has any traces of glycol based brake fluid can result in system failure.
Since DOT 5 is not compatible with DOT 3/4/5.1, DOT 5 brake fluid is always colored violet / purple.
Has a higher viscosity than DOT 3/4/5.1.
Cannot be used with current automotive ABS systems.
Absorbs air which requires special bleeding procedures, can cause a "spongy" pedal feel.etc.
Is somewhat popular for show cars that are only driven on / off a trailer and display cars that are basically never driven because it does not absorb water even after very long periods and therefore does not cause corrosion in master / slave cylinders.​

DOT 5.1 has been available since about 2000 and is a "niche / high performance" product.

A mixture of glycol & glycol esters + a higher level of borate esters
Dry boiling point = 500º F.
Wet boiling point = 356º F.

Since DOT 5 (silicone) already existed and the wet / dry boiling points of the new & improved glycol / glycol ester + borate esters brake fluid was the same as DOT 5, the DOT chose the designation DOT 5.1. That was a stupid decision that has caused a lot of confusion.
​

Don't jump to the conclusion that you should run out and get the latest and greatest DOT 5.1 brake fluid. Fresh (i.e., no moisture) brake fluid is much more important than the type of brake fluid. "Dry" DOT 3 brake fluid has a much higher boiling point (401 F.) than "wet" DOT 4 (311º F.), or "wet" DOT 5.1 (356º F.). Unless you are using your brakes VERY hard, DOT 3 was and is perfectly acceptable. Because DOT 4 has been standard for all U.S. built cars for 10+ years, it is probably easier to find than DOT 3. Anything marketed as DOT 3 / 4 is actually DOT 4.

 

[Toyanvil]

Okay for the last time F10 master cylinder are GONE, unicorns are still available . I just got off the phone with CENTRIC, they have not made them in years and do not plan on starting again. The only way they may have them is if someone returns old stock. They thought it was funny they are still listed. I did let them know they are missing out on a big british car market and they took my number and told me someone may call to talk about it, they build all new ones and still have the tooling to start again. I did order an all new Mazda pickup master cylinder from Rockauto for $32.00 today, should be here this week. Thank you 260Alpine. Remember, my series 2 has a Mazda motor with room on the motor side for brake lines.

 

[260Alpine]

Cool! I was thinking you might go Mazda instead of Ford! If you want to make it silver, KBS has really tough paint and clear that is chemical resistant. Similar to POR15. Also Banjo fittings will give more room for the V6 guys.

 

[260Alpine]

Also the Master cylinder is 72-75 Ford Courier and 74-76 Mazda pickup.

 

[DanR]

Barry, Hope I can explain where you and anyone else reading this will understand what I was told and read in several sites, If the system is completely new, I mean, "completely" new such as lines, fittings, wheel cylinders, Master brake and or clutch, and or slave cylinders etc., etc. are new without ever having any "other" fluids to contaminate the DOT 5, It will function as designed for our Alpines.

I sure would feel better if I could find anything to satisfy my mine! Maybe now would be a good time to convert back to some other fluid while I have my V6 out of the Commodore Blue. Man-a-live, I'd have to change out all the brake lines, the wheel cylinders, master brake cylinder what a mess UGH!

 

[260Alpine]

I've never had any issues with DOT4. Change/bleed once a year.

 

[Toyanvil]

I ordered one for a 1975 B1600 Mazda pickup, I do like the idea if having a Mazda M/C. I have always used Castrol GT LMA Brake Fluid.

 

[DanR]

I've never had any issues with DOT4. Change/bleed once a year.

Jim, My statement is not against Dot 4, Just that I started out with the DOT5 with the new restoration and keep hearing in all these discussions that DOT 5 is not good for our (My) ALpines. I can say for sure if I have had any trouble with my systems using Dot5 since restoration 2012?

 

[Barry]

Barry, Hope I can explain where you and anyone else reading this will understand what I was told and read in several sites, If the system is completely new, I mean, "completely" new such as lines, fittings, wheel cylinders, Master brake and or clutch, and or slave cylinders etc., etc. are new without ever having any "other" fluids to contaminate the DOT 5, It will function as designed for our Alpines.

I sure would feel better if I could find anything to satisfy my mine! Maybe now would be a good time to convert back to some other fluid while I have my V6 out of the Commodore Blue. Man-a-live, I'd have to change out all the brake lines, the wheel cylinders, master brake cylinder what a mess UGH!

Dan,

You are right; using all new parts that have never been exposed to DOT 3/4/5.1 is the ONLY way to safely use DOT 5.

DOT 5 does not absorb water, so piston and cylinder corrosion is not an issue and neither is wet boiling point depression. Neither of those issues are a problem with DOT 3/4/5.1 if you change the fluid occasionally, so I don't see that as a big deal. DOT 5 is compressible and absorbs air, so it has a somewhat "spongy" pedal feel compared to DOT 3/4/5.1.

I would not go with DOT 5, but that's just me; there is nothing wrong with DOT 5 the way you did it.

JMO, YMMV.

 

[George Coleman]

Castrol LMA I have used for 40 + years no problem, did try the Dot 5 silicon but not a good experience. I got on the band wagon when the dot 5 stuff came out I had a problem with the fluid jelling up, it was a mess.