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Clutch not completely releasing - master and slave cylinder sizes?

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by howehap, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. howehap

    howehap Donation Time

    I'm helping a friend with his 1967 Alpine, I have several myself, so I have some experience with Sunbeams... The car does not want to shift into 1st or reverse if the engine is running, shifts fine if the engine is off. I found 90 wt oil in the transmission, changed it to the recommended 30 wt and it shifts a little better, but not acceptable. When the car is warmed up it gets a little harder to get in gear. The car was professionally restored as a side job, so it took ~ 10 years or so. Car shifted fine once-a-upon-a-time before the rebuild. I had no part in the restoration.

    I have looked over all the past threads related to hard shifting, and I am wondering if the master and slave cylinders are no longer a matched set. The master cylinder has been replaced, and the slave cylinder is old and has a 1" bore. He also had a parts car of unknown age that was used as a parts car, so I'm not sure that the slave cylinder is from this car. I'm wondering what the correct bore dia should be for the master cylinder and slave cylinder. I forgot to measure the bore on the master cylinder when I had it apart.

    I have honed out the slave cylinder that had some sludge and pitting, and reinstalled the old parts to see if there was improvement. I have bled the system several times using the various methods in the various threads. Might be some improvement, but not acceptable. I get roughly 3/8 to 1/2 throw at slave cylinder. Slave is mounted on the correct side of the bellhousing.
     
  2. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    Check the position of the clutch pedal. Are the diagonal braces from the engine to the bell housing there? If not the engine and transmission flex apart. Is the fulcrum inside the bell housing the correct one series V used a different one because the clutch was thinner diaphram as opposed to the three finger spring clutch in earlier cars.
     
  3. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

  4. howehap

    howehap Donation Time

    Here is a photo of the master cylinder that is on the car. Yes, the diagonal braces are installed.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    It doesn't mean I'm right, But, I have never seen a Master Cylinder like that one on an Alpine!
     
  6. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    It looks like a Tilton 74 master cylinder . They're available from Pegasus Racing in various bore sizes. FYI,
    I buy Girling 700 masters from Pegasus.
     
  7. rixter

    rixter Platinum Level Sponsor

    On a Series 5, how does the pedal height get adjusted? I cannot see any adjustment.
    Rick
     
  8. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Donation Time

    The pedal arms are pinned to the masters. There's a second hole on the arms to choose from.

    On the partial clutch movement, was the clutch slave attached to the correct side of the bellhousing after the rebuild?
     
  9. howehap

    howehap Donation Time

    Yes, Slave cylinder is mounted on correct side of bellhousing. Does anybody know the correct slave bore dia that goes on series V? Mine measures 1" dia.

    Mike said that the series V master cylinder measures 5/8. I could remove and disassemble mine to find out, but it would be easier to verify the slave bor first. I could also verify throw at the slave cylinder if somebody knows how much is normal on a Series V.

    It could be something else I'm missing, (fyi bleeder fitting is up).

    The owner is going to look through his spare parts and recepts to try to figure out what was changed. He is also going to talk to the restoration guy to see if he remembers anything. The car was not driven for several years after restoration because the owner installed the battery backwards and burnt up the wiring in the car. It then bounce around several repair shops with limited Sunbeam knowledge for several years, so the clutch issue was never recognized after the orignal restoration.
     
  10. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Diamond Level Sponsor

    All of the above makes me suspect the master cylinder. Is there anyway you can plug the master cylinder output, then press the clutch pedal? It should be rock hard.

    Bill
     
  11. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    The replacement master is NOT the original style. As Bill said that would be my first suspect. I trust someone will be able to check the throw on their Alpine, but I am puzzled as to why you don't simply check the throw on one of YOUR Alpines? Your fist sentence in this thread says you "have" several Alpines, or did you mean you "have had" ?

    Tom
     
  12. howehap

    howehap Donation Time

    Yes, I have several Alpines, only one of them is a Series V, and none of them have working clutch hydraulics. Now that I am retired, I hope to get going on repairing my Alpines. I also had a 1969 fastback, back about 1980 that was restored and on the road.

    I guess I could remove the master from my Series V, and see if it is serviceable, and try it out. I would gladly recommend the owner by a new master cylinder if that is the problem, but I want to figure out what is wrong first, so that I am not just replacing parts and hoping I fix the problem:(
    -Bob
     
  13. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    OK, Bob, now we understand. Welcome to the Forum. Too cold to get under my car to check the throw, but I did check the slave bore by looking at my slave repair kit and measuring the inner seal. And yes, it's a 1" bore on the original SV slave.

    Tom
     
  14. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    If you have access to an original they can be sleeved companies such as White Post can do it at a reasonable price
     

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