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1963 alpine questions

S

seamoose

Donation Time
Hi, Thanks to the gentlemen who helped me get signed on .
I have questions about the value of a 1963 alpine . this car is owned by a coworker and friend so i'm not looking to steal it . I don't have tons of money to throw away so I don't want to buy something for a whole lot more than its worth . I hadn't been interested in buying a alpine as I never saw one I was looking at vetts to restore and this popped up .If I decide not to buy I will help introduce it to the membership here . Here is the story
The couple buys a 1963 Alpine It is all redone to correct form . New chrome new rag top , has soft top . The car is apprased at 7500 in 2000 sometime after the motor is pulled sent to be rebuilt .the husband becomes ill during this time and passes .The engine in crate and car are still sitting in the garage . I'm told that there are lots of new /extra parts . This was the mans passion so she has held on to it till now . The above is what I understand from conversations we had I didn't ask much as she has a emotional connection to the car and I didn't want to be a a... . I know I will be taking a risk with the motor and hope everything is there . I have researched pricing and see running models in fair shape for 4500 to 6500 . I would find it interesting to do the research and put this back together correct to its period as it is quite rare to see one here . An added plus is my wife is a Englishmen and is all excited about the possibility of riding in a Alpine .She might not even complain about what I spend on my toys for a change . If you can suggest a fair price do so .If you have any suggestions about to look for or where to look for rust /bondo / leaks shoot . I'm at a loss with this brand . I'm going to look at it on sunday . Maybe I'll get some pics if its possible or the vin . Remember I want to be fair with a offer. I'm in S jersey if you are
nearby and interested in helping I can phone you if you are interested in helping or know of a service that I can pay to look at it with me Thanks for any suggestions in advance , Frank T
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Is the car a series II or S3 Alpine? You will be able to tell by the windscreen, if it has 1/4 windows on the doors its a S3, if it has a spare wheel horizontal in the boot sitting on top of a petrol tank its a SII.

The price you quote seems ok for a nice car, it is a lot cheaper than what you would spend restoring a rusty alpine.

When buying an alpine the only thing that really matters is body condition. mechanicals are quite cheap and easy, on the S3 onwards all the trim is available from suppliers.

Does the body have rust.. if so where? If the body has been worked on have they done it right?
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
car

I'm assuming that the appraisal they had done in 2000 will tell me what condition it was in then .I 've never seen a appraisal done on a historic car I'm hoping it list any thing that is incorrect to the year and model along with any work that was improperly or properly done . The car was only run a few times after.Then the motor was pulled for a rebuild . Like a said that will be a big issue as its been in a crate since . I'm concerned that it may have seized if there was temp changes causing condensation and internal rust . I have no idea what was done to it or who did it . I'm going tomorrow to see what she has and what documentation she has . I'll take some pictures and try to see just what is there .If my wife had to sell one of my bike projects when I had them apart you would have quite a time going through my sheds piles to get it all together ,also what I might have sent out for work .So this could be a giant puzzle with out all the parts . If this car was valued at 7500 in 2000 it must have been pretty clean at the time !Thanks again for any help . I will post what I find out tomorrow . If nothing else maybe I'll help her part it out if its not all there . Thanks for the description of the two models ,FT
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Don't bet on an appraisal for an Alpine to deal with correctness, unless it was done by someone very familiar with the breed. Too many changes and the cars were never that popular.

In my opinion, the most important thing is condition (read "rust"). Check out the areas behind the front wheels. Also the trunk floor in front of the wheels. Battery box, bottoms of the doors and the door gap. Alpines have unit construction bodies and as they rust and weaken, they sag. As that happens, the door gap will disappear, getting to the point the door actually hits the rear panel. If that happens, run, don't walk, away.

Bill
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
63

Thanks , I will pay attention to those points when I see it later .If I decide I want to get involved in this car i'm thinking that I should bring a breaker bar and manualy turn the engine to see if its free before buying .Should I spray fogging oil in the cylinders first ?
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Not necessary if you simply want to see if the engine is stuck. One full turn should be enough to do that and will not kill a dry engine.

Bill
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
The alpine visited !!!

The car is a 1964 not 63 It has 1/4 windows so its a series 3 . It was bought in 2000 restored by the previous owner . Bought for 5200.00 with a bunch of spare parts . The engine had issues off the start and a engine came with the sale.
The car was driven to its current location and the hood , radiator /intake exhaust removed . All the parts are there. The interior has been redone including carpet and is very clean except for the center consul which is on a bench and will need work .The body is in very good shape from what I could see .Floors and trunk in very good shape underside looks better than my 2000 ford ranger . Glass is all good soft top was replaced back some time but I did not remove the cover all the way off I would expect that it will be dry rotted from time . Hard top is hanging from the rafters and in good condition . The bumpers have developed surface rust but salvageable . The trunk area looks as new and has a spare mounted in it . The paint was redone in a light blue and I would say a fair paint job when it was done and would be alright for me /no rust anywhere but I did not remove the cover all the way due to the amount of dirt/dust .I didn't want to damage anything.
The bad !!! The engine sitting on the floor does not look to be a rebuild , Its just a used engine from a 64 along with a used tranny no way to establish what condition they are in however the are free to turn . The one in the car is seized . Extra Parts There are two clean doors ,a hood and a trunk lid along with the parts for a soft top minus the cloth a windshield 3 driveshafts two heater cores one might be out of the car three carbs two intakes a exhaust manifold the complete assembly for windshield wipers . A clutch and pressure plate attached to the spare engine and one on a shelf which may have been bought new the box has deteriated but it looks unused .A set of 4 spoke wheels that may be beyond
saving . So I did not make a offer at this time . It would be a cool project to get it on the road .But I would need to have someone go through the replacement engine most likely the brakes and hydrolics need a exhaust system, tires, I don't know if the seals in the trans /rear will need replacement . I didn't try the steering .
. So can anyone can out there place a value on this ? also what are the extra doors hood and trunk spare trans worth . as they may off set the cost of replacement parts . Consider that I am in New Jersey and I never saw another sunbeam I would think everything will need to be shipped .
. I'll say this if this was a vet I would walk away from it
,Any input is welcome !!!!!!
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Establishing the value of an Alpine is almost Mission Impossible. It's all in the eyes of the beholder, or more accurately, the buyer. Consider: You can buy a nice driver for that kind of money. But on the other hand, restoring a rusty body can take years and thousands of $$$. Rebuilding the engine will cost about $2500. You have no idea of the condition of the spare engine and they don't either. Maybe offer them $5000 for a running Alpine (say they decide to install the mystery engine/trans) and half that for a non runner?

I don't know.

Bill
Oh, don't worry about the brake and clutch hydraulic seals. Consider them shot. But that's not a big deal. Nor the transmission seals, they leak. As one owner said, when it quits leaking trans oil, its time to top it off.
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
1964

Thanks for writing
Anyone else please give your opinions !! I 've been looking at e bay and craigs but there isn't a lot of parts or cars (alpines)being listed for pricing

If you know what a clean set of doors a hood and trunk lid , a engine block
a set up for wipers (arms ,motor linkage ) used mystery transmission ,
might be worth ?A set of four rusted spoke rims there are more parts this is just what I saw that may have value
Also a rust free complete 1964 alpine with very clean complete interior soft and hard tops has plain rims on it tires are dry rotted has a trans that worked to get it to where its at .the engine is bad and partialy dismantled ,I think everything is in the garage from what I saw including all the nuts and bolts in jars .this has clean nj title

At this point I think I'll advise the owner that the car may be worth 2000 to 2500 dollars and the parts maybe 500. She has 6000 into it but I don't see her recovering that .
I would like to help them out with it if I can . Maybe I will help with listing it .
If it was a car I had more knowledge about and interest (American ) I would build something from it or turn a friend on to it but no one I know has a interest in a alpine . I did see a v 8 conversion kit on craigs list for it which could be interesting but I'm sure I end up throwing a fortune at it then I can't imagine what that little car would do with a eight stuck in it .
Chime in guys any input is welcome .
This has made me think of all the tools ,parts and stuff I have laying around stuffed away .
If something was to happen to me my wife would have no idea of the value .One of the things we don't take care of while we're still playing !
Thanks for any input !!!!!!!!!!
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
64

After more research I quess this would have to be a series 4 ? I put a pic on my profile . I didn't take one of the back and I don't remember how high the fins were .It has 1/4 windows but I read that the 64 s were series 4 .
anyway it being used as my avatar so you can see it .
 
Alpine Addict

Alpine Addict

Platinum Donor
Platinum Level Sponsor
This car could still have been manufactured in 1963 and registered in the USA in 1964. The windshield is the same for both series 3 and 4. Do you have any more photographs?
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
alpine

No , I took a few of the other side and the interior but they didn't come out the only other one is of the hard top hanging from the rafter . I will see her next week at work to see what she wants to do with it . I guess its worth the same as a 63 or 64 ? If she wants to consider selling for a price that sounds right with the info from here and e bay I will list it and get the vin and more history on it . I think she is hoping for 5000 which I don't think is going to happen !
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
prices

I've exhausted myself searching the web for values on the doors hood and trunk lid . I always find used parts prices for my motorcycles and trucks easily but i can't find crap on this car .Someone Help !!! Take a shot at what this stuf is worth . I may be listing it here to finance a motor or listing the whole lot for the owner if she wants . What would you pay for a door if it was needed ?????
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
Problem is not knowing what we are valuing. The doors are different on SI/II then S3/IV then SIVA/V.. and then there are the GT doors on S3-V. there are also several different trunk lids.

if the doors are straight and rust free.. to the right buyer. maybe a couple of hundred if theirs are junk, maybe as low as $50 if someone has to ship them and are not desperate.

As for the ca, there is so little info it's hard to know what we are dealing with. Photos of the car and especially under it and the floors are crucial. Not to mention we could then work out what series the car is.

if the car is very straight rust free and all there.. 5K might be achievable.. funnily enough people wont pay much for a straight rust free non-driver and end up spending much more on rougher cars they can drive..
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
alpine

I spoke to her tonight .She is going to bring me all the paperwork they had on the car including the appraisal sheet (it wasn't available when I was there) . hopefuly that will shed more light on it .Maybe the vin will show on your registry if I'm lucky . I am learning as I go with this and wasn't aware of the different series , I thought a 64 was a 64
. As far as the car its titled as a 64 as I said in prior post its spotless as far as rust floors fenders trunk rocker panels are all clean . Interior is very clean with what looks to be all new rug in before parked, inside door panels also clean under doors no rust .I pulled back the rug to see the pans and saw no ugly welds or rust ,I saw no pitting or bubbling in the paint .the dash is wood and everything seems to be there .the seats were as new The extra body parts are rust free with no dents and are straight and white .
The mystery parts are the extra engine and trans that are on the floor .I turned the engine by hand and its free but god knows where it came from or what condition its in the engine in it is seized and partialy dismantled .I did not see a carb anywhere . maybe there will be some receipts in the paper work that will tell something I know I 'm looking at a broad range of pricing ,but I said I''d try to help and i'm trying to give her a fair reasonable range for a sale price and . It sat this long as she had no idea of its value . She had called local clubs at one time but no one was familer with the sunbeam and never looked at it .if she doesn't sell it it this time I think will end up as scrap someday which will be a shame as for a 64 vehicle its in realy nice shape except for mechanicals .I just don't know a darn thing about this breed .
Thanks again for the response
.at this point I'm saying around 100 a body part . And that's if she can find a buyer !!Again if someone is in n.j. that has an interest in this contact me and I'll hook up a look see .
 
M

mikephillips

Donation Time
That's the thing with used Alpine parts, unless you know or find someone who wants it it's basically worth scrap value. Most of us who've been involved over the years have our own piles of parts that we don't want to dump, just in case. But an sit around for years waiting on someone who may need one of them. So I wouln't put a vlaue of more than a couple hundred on all the spares. Explain this to the seller this way.

The hardtop, assuming the later steel one, though is a different matter and they are in a period of demand so depending on condition and completeness could go as high as a couple thousand if you were to sell it.
 
S

seamoose

Donation Time
64

Car is VIN 12 B94103827
4 speed manual ,AC ,power steering ,Power brakes, tilt wheel, power locks radio

Apraisal in 4/11/98 prior to being parked
Paint Blue >excellent
interior >Good
Mechanicak >good
Tires Brigstone
 
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