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Tightening Crankshaft Pulley bolt

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agmason54

Donation Time
crank bolt

What could be easier?If a one is into the crankbolt and timing cover then sticking a clothes line down number one should be so simple a caveman could do it.The line won't fit anyway unless the piston is down.I assume anyone with a Sunbeam MUST work on it or be dating a mechanic.
If you have the piston down there no chance of 'damage' other than to your clothes line.My mom yelled at me for using hers but it was undamaged...
Agm
 
D

Dr.NO 007

RootesRacer sure doesn't like your "mr goodwrench" methods ! and don't go off on a tangent.
 

Tom H

Platinum Level Sponsor
Rootes Racer, I think Al's idea has no problem as long as you are careful to put enough rope in to be sure you are not near TDC or BDC. And it does not take too much care to observe the angle and avoid that. At 90 deg crank angle with 100 Ft Lbs of torque, the crank (1.5 in throw= 1/8 of a foot) applies 800 lbs of force on the rod (and head). 45 deg past 90 that force goes to 800/0.707 or 1140 lbs, at 60 deg past 90 it becomes 800/0.5 or 1600 lbs. So it seems to me if you are just careful to keep it near 90 deg (+/- 60) you'll be OK.

I think it's a neat idea.

Tom H
 

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
Rootes Racer, I think Al's idea has no problem as long as you are careful to put enough rope in to be sure you are not near TDC or BDC. And it does not take too much care to observe the angle and avoid that. At 90 deg crank angle with 100 Ft Lbs of torque, the crank (1.5 in throw= 1/8 of a foot) applies 800 lbs of force on the rod (and head). 45 deg past 90 that force goes to 800/0.707 or 1140 lbs, at 60 deg past 90 it becomes 800/0.5 or 1600 lbs. So it seems to me if you are just careful to keep it near 90 deg (+/- 60) you'll be OK.
I think it's a neat idea.
Tom H

I must be missing something here. Is it not possible to put the car in 1st gear, put the brake on and block the wheels? I would think you all of this would hold the car so that you could torque the pulley bolt down to 100 FT Lbs, would it not? Mind you this is not Architecture or structural design so what do I know.

Andrew
 

skywords

Donation Time
I must be missing something here. Is it not possible to put the car in 1st gear, put the brake on and block the wheels? I would think you all of this would hold the car so that you could torque the pulley bolt down to 100 FT Lbs, would it not? Mind you this is not Architecture or structural design so what do I know.

Andrew

You are assuming the engine is in the car.
 

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
I must be missing something here. Is it not possible to put the car in 1st gear, put the brake on and block the wheels? I would think you all of this would hold the car so that you could torque the pulley bolt down to 100 FT Lbs, would it not? Mind you this is not Architecture or structural design so what do I know.

Andrew

High gear would be a better choice, maybe. At least you would not have to deal with the gear multiplication through the trans trying to move the car. Also having someone applying the foot brake would be better than trying to trust the parking brake to hold the car ( at least someone will be there with a camera to record the tire on foot problem :D:rolleyes: ).

100 ft.lbs. is more than the engine is rated to produce when running. You can cause the car to move before reaching the proper applied torque.
 

agmason54

Donation Time
tightening the crankshaft pully bolt..

To Rootes Racer,
I get it now-You got an A in geometry but cannot understand the clothesline because it's not in the book.I'm impressed how you said so much and at the same time said nothing.
You obviviously are no dummy like me so why not put your high intellect to work and think about a clothes line filling up a spark plug hole instead of trying to baffle us by over-explaining the guts of an engine..The rope trick does WORK even if it is too simple for some to comprehend.
Oh well I guess I'll never get it.....
Thank you very much,
Agm
ps
Has anyone ever lit a fire on top of a cold frozen flooded Alpine carb? I have.It gives new definition to 'fire in the hole' and will fire up any cold engine and is more impressive than the rope trick......
I want to thank Chuck in Canada for the kind words.We are not related.
Thanks Chuck!!Now thats funny!!!!
 

RootesRich

Donation Time
I'm going to ask that everyone take a deep breath before tempers really get fired up. Obviously we've hit on another subject with various opinions and if you think about it, we're all correct.

The point was not that the rope trick won't work, it's that if not done properly one can damage an engine. It can be done improperly.

Please remember not everyone on the Forum works on Alpines or choses to work on Alpines. No one should be made to feel less of an owner because they pay a professional to do anything from routine maintenance to a complete restoration.

I hope my comments are received in the spirit in which they are written.
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
To Rootes Racer,
I get it now-You got an A in geometry but cannot understand the clothesline because it's not in the book.I'm impressed how you said so much and at the same time said nothing.
You obviviously are no dummy like me so why not put your high intellect to work and think about a clothes line filling up a spark plug hole instead of trying to baffle us by over-explaining the guts of an engine..The rope trick does WORK even if it is too simple for some to comprehend.
Oh well I guess I'll never get it.....
Thank you very much,
Agm
ps
Has anyone ever lit a fire on top of a cold frozen flooded Alpine carb? I have.It gives new definition to 'fire in the hole' and will fire up any cold engine and is more impressive than the rope trick......
I want to thank Chuck in Canada for the kind words.We are not related.
Thanks Chuck!!Now thats funny!!!!

Al,

I quit the argument becuase you aren't getting it, and my time is more valuable than your rod bearings.

You want an explanation, here it is.

The force on the rods pins and bearings is proportional to the vector of the crank angle due to its leverage as acted on by the crank. This is easy, perhaps even you got this.

The force on said components exponentially increases as the piston gets nearer TDC.

The rod bearings are what takes that force when the piston begins to lock.

The ugly part is that as the force is rising while the crank is still rotating (due to the spring rate of the compressing rope), makes a nice dent in the white metal on the bottom shell.

Someone caclulated (I'll trust the math) that the force was 1140 lbs with the crank at 60 degrees and 100 lbs ft of torque aplied to the crank snout.

No I ask you, can you imagine the effect on the softmetal bearings with that amount of load on them, while rotating that last couple of degrees, all without the benefit of the hydrodynamic lubrication the engine sees when it has oil pressure?

Now imagine what the force and consequent damage of the shells will be with the clothesline inserted where you didnt pack the cylinder half full of rope before it locked up (where the crank angle was less than 60 degrees).

I myself have had many engines apart, Ive seen what happens to bearings when the motor is locked and you try to turn it anyway (like if a timing belt breaks, or if the cyls have oil/water or fuel loaded in them).

Anyhow Al, this is all probably wasted on you. I never said that your procedure wouldnt tighten down the crank bolt, what I said was that it was stupid and you will damage your rods and bearings.

Why on earth you would want to damage your bearings for lack of an impact wrench just blows my mind.

Was that saying enough this time sir?
 
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