Model 1903 Springfield , 1911 .45ACP. I heard he first had an Enfield, but didn't like it. Swapped it for the Springfield.
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Kimber or Springfield?
- Thread starter Series3Scott
- Start date
Model 1903 Springfield , 1911 .45ACP. I heard he first had an Enfield, but didn't like it. Swapped it for the Springfield.
Nickodell
Donation Time
BRRRRR!! On the first question, as Alex Trevek would say: "Oh no. Sorry."
Sgt. (actually, Corporal at the time of his epic act of gallantry) York used a Model 1917 Lee-Enfield, one of several hundred thousand made in the USA. The rapid bolt action and 10-round magazine was quite likely the reason he was able to pick off so many targets in such a short time. It also had windage adjustment on the rear sight, which York, an experienced marksman, would have appreciated. For understandable national pride reasons, the movie showed him using a Springfield.
DING!! On the second. His side-arm was indeed a Colt 1911 .45, not the Luger shown in the movie, which would on the face of it seem to negate the national pride bit. But when they were making the movie, a low-budget production made in a short time, they couldn't get any blanks for the Colt in time for the takes, but they could get 9mm parabellum blanks, which worked in the Luger.
Strange.
Sgt. (actually, Corporal at the time of his epic act of gallantry) York used a Model 1917 Lee-Enfield, one of several hundred thousand made in the USA. The rapid bolt action and 10-round magazine was quite likely the reason he was able to pick off so many targets in such a short time. It also had windage adjustment on the rear sight, which York, an experienced marksman, would have appreciated. For understandable national pride reasons, the movie showed him using a Springfield.
DING!! On the second. His side-arm was indeed a Colt 1911 .45, not the Luger shown in the movie, which would on the face of it seem to negate the national pride bit. But when they were making the movie, a low-budget production made in a short time, they couldn't get any blanks for the Colt in time for the takes, but they could get 9mm parabellum blanks, which worked in the Luger.
Strange.
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
That's why I like my 9mm parabellum pistol (P08). It's a 1939 model. It's smooth as silk and packs a whallop. My dad picked it up from a cache of NOS arms found near the end of the war. And of all the arms in my collection, that's one you'll truly have to pry from my cold, dead hands.
Jim E
Donation Time
My grandpa brought back a few things from the Asian theater, the sword pictured and a big long japanes rifle with a bayonet, not sure what the rifle was but it had to be longer and about as heavy as the guys who were carrying them. Seem to recall it shot some odd caliber round so I never got to shoot it. Anyone know what it might have been?
Luger was pretty much the standard side arm for europe right? made by several different countries right? Years ago a buddy had a german unit but he had some legel entanglements before I got a chance to shoot it.
I do not know much about guns but have shot all sorts of them, at one point in my past the folks I was around all tended to be armed some with interesting weapons. The 45 cal Thompson was pretty whacky.
When I was a kid we always had a bunch of shot guns and wincesters around the house. Mostly we rabbit hunted. My choice at the time was either an old 410 single shot or a single shot 16 gauge and I would carry my reload round between the fingers of my left hand. Seems like those old single shots were about as heavy as I was at the time. Dad and grandpa carried pumps or autos so if I wanted a second shot had to be pretty quick on the reload. And with the 16 [which kicked like a mule] I had to avoid a direct hit or there would not be much rabbit left then the 410 had a pattern about like a 22 so with it you had to be dead on. Then santa brought me a nice used 20 gauge single shot that was not much older than I was at the time! I was so use to hunting with a single shot the first time I used dads pump after firing off a round I had to stop myself from trying to break it open and sticking a shell in it.
And how about gun safty.... childrens services would have taken me away in todays world. The guns all hung on the wall in my room and the shells were right there, we had never even heard of a trigger lock. Playing with a gun never entered my mind and if it had someone would have beat the tar out of me....so I guess my folks practiced a different school of gun safty.
Luger was pretty much the standard side arm for europe right? made by several different countries right? Years ago a buddy had a german unit but he had some legel entanglements before I got a chance to shoot it.
I do not know much about guns but have shot all sorts of them, at one point in my past the folks I was around all tended to be armed some with interesting weapons. The 45 cal Thompson was pretty whacky.
When I was a kid we always had a bunch of shot guns and wincesters around the house. Mostly we rabbit hunted. My choice at the time was either an old 410 single shot or a single shot 16 gauge and I would carry my reload round between the fingers of my left hand. Seems like those old single shots were about as heavy as I was at the time. Dad and grandpa carried pumps or autos so if I wanted a second shot had to be pretty quick on the reload. And with the 16 [which kicked like a mule] I had to avoid a direct hit or there would not be much rabbit left then the 410 had a pattern about like a 22 so with it you had to be dead on. Then santa brought me a nice used 20 gauge single shot that was not much older than I was at the time! I was so use to hunting with a single shot the first time I used dads pump after firing off a round I had to stop myself from trying to break it open and sticking a shell in it.
And how about gun safty.... childrens services would have taken me away in todays world. The guns all hung on the wall in my room and the shells were right there, we had never even heard of a trigger lock. Playing with a gun never entered my mind and if it had someone would have beat the tar out of me....so I guess my folks practiced a different school of gun safty.
puff4
Platinum Level Sponsor
Well, I do practice some gun safety - the ammo is stored in a different place from the arms, and it's locked up. (Apart from one sidearm which only I know where it is hidden - and it's loaded and ready for home protection.)
But I've raised my two sons from an early age to respect firearms... they have shot them and were taught gun safety by me initially, and later again by the Boy Scouts... they also have heard me tell them that if they every want to inherit my collection - and trust me, there's some rare, beautiful and quite valuable items there - they will *never* inherit them if they even *once* break the rules... and they know I mean it. There are a few areas where they know I have zero-tolerance rules, and arms safety is one of them.
But I've raised my two sons from an early age to respect firearms... they have shot them and were taught gun safety by me initially, and later again by the Boy Scouts... they also have heard me tell them that if they every want to inherit my collection - and trust me, there's some rare, beautiful and quite valuable items there - they will *never* inherit them if they even *once* break the rules... and they know I mean it. There are a few areas where they know I have zero-tolerance rules, and arms safety is one of them.
Nickodell
Donation Time
I remember three aphorisms drummed into us cadets by the musketry instructor:
"Do not allow your weapon to be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them with it."
"Do not place you finger on the trigger until you intend to fire."
"The 'empty' gun kills the fool or his friend."
"Do not allow your weapon to be pointed at someone unless you intend to kill them with it."
"Do not place you finger on the trigger until you intend to fire."
"The 'empty' gun kills the fool or his friend."
No such thing as too many precautions when it comes to firearms. I check my weapons before I put them in the safe, and when I take them out. Having almost been shot by an "empty gun" I check everything, every time, and I don't care who checked it just before.
I have often been asked "what should I buy for self defense? or "What kind of gun should I have around the house, just in case?" to which I respond "What can you afford to practice with consistantly to get to a high level of proficiency?" (Twice a year for 50 rounds per session doesn't make it) If all one can aford to practice with is a .22 so be it. A well aimed and controlled .22 is better than a carelessly fired .45.
You don't own a car (Daily Driver, not our Alpines) with the idea of only driving it one a year and expect to be competent. If a person isn't willing to get good and most importantly safe with a weapon, they're probably better off without it. Although a dedicated gun owner, I've probably kept more people out of guns than Sarah Brady.
Nickodell
Donation Time
A few weeks after my group went through the gunnery course an instructor was killed by a cadet who turned round on the range with his Sten gun: "Hey, Sarge., this thing's jammed" and then the last two rounds gut-shot the poor guy.
A week ago, at a gun fair near here, a 10-year-old kid was killed on the automatic weapon demonstration range. In Pennsylvania (America's #1 hunting state, with lax firearm regulations) you can legally fire all sorts of autos on these ranges, under supervision. The first mistake was allowing the kid to be "supervised" by a 15-year-old who was not - no kidding - qualified to do so, and against state law. The second was giving the kid a short-barrel Uzi in the stupid, and criminal, assumption that it would be easier to control than the heavier, longer-barrel version. Anyone who has any knowledge of musketry knows that the lighter the weapon and the shorter the barrel, the harder it is to counter muzzle climb. In this case the 10-year-old, watched by his father, pressed the trigger and the muzzle promptly climbed up out of his control and the last shot of the magazine went into his head via his chin.
When we practised with the Sten, another short-barrel automatic, against man-size targets, the instruction was to forget about trying to keep it on a small point of aim, because even Tarzan couldn't, but instead "aim between belt and boot and let the barrel climb."
It was only a few years ago that I found that this was a quote from a poem about his experience in WWII by Scottish poet Louis Simpson:
Carentan O Carentan
Trees in the old days used to stand
And shape a shady lane
Where lovers wandered hand in hand
Who came from Carentan.
This was the shining green canal
Where we came two by two
Walking at combat-interval.
Such trees we never knew.
The day was early June, the ground
Was soft and bright with dew.
Far away the guns did sound,
But here the sky was blue.
The sky was blue, but there a smoke
Hung still above the sea
Where the ships together spoke
To towns we could not see.
Could you have seen us through a glass
You would have said a walk
Of farmers out to turn the grass,
Each with his own hay-fork.
The watchers in their leopard suits
Waited till it was time,
And aimed between the belt and boot
And let the barrel climb.
I must lie down at once, there is
A hammer at my knee.
And call it death or cowardice,
Don't count again on me.
Everything's all right, Mother,
Everyone gets the same
At one time or another.
It's all in the game.
I never strolled, nor ever shall,
Down such a leafy lane.
I never drank in a canal,
Nor ever shall again.
There is a whistling in the leaves
And it is not the wind,
The twigs are falling from the knives
That cut men to the ground.
Tell me, Master-Sergeant,
The way to turn and shoot.
But the Sergeant's silent
That taught me how to do it.
O Captain, show us quickly
Our place upon the map.
But the Captain's sickly
And taking a long nap.
Lieutenant, what's my duty,
My place in the platoon?
He too's a sleeping beauty,
Charmed by that strange tune.
Carentan O Carentan
Before we met with you
We never yet had lost a man
Or known what death could do.
["Leopard suits" would be German camouflage coveralls.]
A week ago, at a gun fair near here, a 10-year-old kid was killed on the automatic weapon demonstration range. In Pennsylvania (America's #1 hunting state, with lax firearm regulations) you can legally fire all sorts of autos on these ranges, under supervision. The first mistake was allowing the kid to be "supervised" by a 15-year-old who was not - no kidding - qualified to do so, and against state law. The second was giving the kid a short-barrel Uzi in the stupid, and criminal, assumption that it would be easier to control than the heavier, longer-barrel version. Anyone who has any knowledge of musketry knows that the lighter the weapon and the shorter the barrel, the harder it is to counter muzzle climb. In this case the 10-year-old, watched by his father, pressed the trigger and the muzzle promptly climbed up out of his control and the last shot of the magazine went into his head via his chin.
When we practised with the Sten, another short-barrel automatic, against man-size targets, the instruction was to forget about trying to keep it on a small point of aim, because even Tarzan couldn't, but instead "aim between belt and boot and let the barrel climb."
It was only a few years ago that I found that this was a quote from a poem about his experience in WWII by Scottish poet Louis Simpson:
Carentan O Carentan
Trees in the old days used to stand
And shape a shady lane
Where lovers wandered hand in hand
Who came from Carentan.
This was the shining green canal
Where we came two by two
Walking at combat-interval.
Such trees we never knew.
The day was early June, the ground
Was soft and bright with dew.
Far away the guns did sound,
But here the sky was blue.
The sky was blue, but there a smoke
Hung still above the sea
Where the ships together spoke
To towns we could not see.
Could you have seen us through a glass
You would have said a walk
Of farmers out to turn the grass,
Each with his own hay-fork.
The watchers in their leopard suits
Waited till it was time,
And aimed between the belt and boot
And let the barrel climb.
I must lie down at once, there is
A hammer at my knee.
And call it death or cowardice,
Don't count again on me.
Everything's all right, Mother,
Everyone gets the same
At one time or another.
It's all in the game.
I never strolled, nor ever shall,
Down such a leafy lane.
I never drank in a canal,
Nor ever shall again.
There is a whistling in the leaves
And it is not the wind,
The twigs are falling from the knives
That cut men to the ground.
Tell me, Master-Sergeant,
The way to turn and shoot.
But the Sergeant's silent
That taught me how to do it.
O Captain, show us quickly
Our place upon the map.
But the Captain's sickly
And taking a long nap.
Lieutenant, what's my duty,
My place in the platoon?
He too's a sleeping beauty,
Charmed by that strange tune.
Carentan O Carentan
Before we met with you
We never yet had lost a man
Or known what death could do.
["Leopard suits" would be German camouflage coveralls.]
L
Lee DeRamus saoca0404
Nick, and Nick, I agree on both counts. A few years ago I missed the Knob Creek Machinegun Shoot in Kentucky. It is held twice a year and I try to make it at least once a year. Some fool had 3 GE mini-guns mounted on a homemade mount that used a 30 Cal. Browning machinegun tripod. These are electric Gatlin guns. He had switches where one could fire one, two, or all three at a time.His young teenaged daughter tried firing it using all three. The tripod tipped back and she panicked and stood up. DECAPITATION. I think that has been the only accident there, ever. I had three friends from the gun club that were there. I am glad I wasn't. I have taught all three of my children to shoot safely. Now I am working with my two grandchildren. My son was the Captin of the High School rifle team. Yeah, we still have them here in the South. He was also the rifle and shotgun instructor at the Boy Scout Camp here.
Jim the Arisaka was probably 7.7mm. They also used a 6.5mm. If it does have the chrysanthimum on the top of the receiver ring it is rare.As part of the Jap surrender, we agreed to grind off all of the chrysanthimums. A few did make it back here without being defaced.
I also have several Lugers. I had to sell most of my collection of Lugers and Mauser rifles to help pay for the accident back in 1989, but have started to rebuild it. They have a reputation for jamming. I have found that they were designed to function with the 125gr. bullet. If the 115gr bullet is used they will occasionaly jam.
Nick-O, that poem sent chills down my spine.
Lee
Jim the Arisaka was probably 7.7mm. They also used a 6.5mm. If it does have the chrysanthimum on the top of the receiver ring it is rare.As part of the Jap surrender, we agreed to grind off all of the chrysanthimums. A few did make it back here without being defaced.
I also have several Lugers. I had to sell most of my collection of Lugers and Mauser rifles to help pay for the accident back in 1989, but have started to rebuild it. They have a reputation for jamming. I have found that they were designed to function with the 125gr. bullet. If the 115gr bullet is used they will occasionaly jam.
Nick-O, that poem sent chills down my spine.
Lee
Jim E
Donation Time
Oh we pratcied gun safty. Take the gun down and the first things was to check to see it was not loaded, never point it at anyone and if was handed off to someone or you , you checked it first thing to see that it was not loaded. Even if you just saw your dad check to see it was not loaded you checked it. There were just no trigger locks or safes and the rounds were right there. I do not recall there ever being a loaded gun in the house.
I do not have the rifle one of my cousins got it when grandpa passed but I do recall it having a flower stamped on it because I thought it was odd.
Think the favorite gun I ever owned was a nylon 22, light easy and cheap to shoot. Was my squirle gun that and was just a real fun target practice gun. Guess not a stopping power piece but I imagine 3 or 4 rounds would take the edge off a fellow and I know I could hit something with it. Unlike the 45 which I would only feel comfortable in about hand shaking distance. Of course a shoulder holster for the nylon would be interesting...
Say do they still make the nylon 22?
I do not have the rifle one of my cousins got it when grandpa passed but I do recall it having a flower stamped on it because I thought it was odd.
Think the favorite gun I ever owned was a nylon 22, light easy and cheap to shoot. Was my squirle gun that and was just a real fun target practice gun. Guess not a stopping power piece but I imagine 3 or 4 rounds would take the edge off a fellow and I know I could hit something with it. Unlike the 45 which I would only feel comfortable in about hand shaking distance. Of course a shoulder holster for the nylon would be interesting...
Say do they still make the nylon 22?
I think the nylon 22's have been out of production for many years. I have a friend that collects 22 caliber rifles and has paid good money for them.
Handshake distance? I have a .45 that will still cloverleaf at 50 yards in a Ransom Rest. Best I can do prone was 3-5" groups. Best gun I own.
Handshake distance? I have a .45 that will still cloverleaf at 50 yards in a Ransom Rest. Best I can do prone was 3-5" groups. Best gun I own.
Nickodell
Donation Time
The Luger (more correctly, the P-08) was largely replaced in WWII by the Walther P38 pistol, developed as a military pistol for the German army in 1938-9, and was called the "Heeres Pistol," or Army Pistol. During the war, P38 pistols were made by a number of factories, including the Walther itself.
The P38 was more robust than the P-08, cheaper to produce and more reliable in the field. A short-barrel version was used by the Gestapo and easily concealed, impossible with the P-08. It was also the first semi-automatic pistol to fire the first round by double-action. In other words, unlike other pistols you could have a round in the receiver but with the hammer decocked - all the way forward, locked and loaded as it were - without the danger of an accidental discharge, as you had to pull the trigger all the way through double action, as in a revolver, before it would fire. After the first round, the weapon is in single-action, i.e. a short pull on the trigger fired each round in the magazine. This safety feature is designed into most modern pistols.
L
Lee DeRamus saoca0404
Contrary to what is seen in the movies, the main battle pistol used by the Germans was the P38. Some officers that were from old military families carried the P08 Luger as a status symbol. The higher the rank, usually the smaller the pistol they carried. A friends father "liberated" a Liliput 4.25mm pistol from a high ranking officer during the war. It is one of the smallest pistols I have ever seen. Himmler saw to it that his SS troops had their share of the latest and best, including the P38 and the MP43, and STG44 rifles. These were the first true "Assault Rifles".
Lee
Lee
husky drvr
Platinum Level Sponsor
Nick,
The U.S. Model of 1917 rifle has no structural relationship to the British Lee-Enfield. Nor does it have a windage adjustment for the rear sight.
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8b.G...p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle
While developed at the same arsenal, the M1917 is not a version of the .303 caliber rifle of c. 1890-1955, the Lee-Enfield (such as the SMLE version). Both were developed at the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield (arsenal) in the United Kingdom. The M1917 was actually a development of the Mauser 98 rifle. Due to the use of rimmed cartridges in the P14, the magazine capacity for the smaller diameter 30-06 was 6 rounds, although stripper clips held only five cartridges.
Nickodell
Donation Time
Yo. I stand corrected. Thanks for this information, duly stored in my files. I think I was confusing it with the Enfield P14, which I have shot many times in club competition, which used a hybrid Mauser/Lee action and was more accurate than the standard Lee-Enfield. IIRC it was still in use in WWII as a sniper rifle.
Anyhow, speaking of hand guns, what do you think of this one, which just lost its FDA endorsement as a "medical device." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16207-company-tries-to-get-gun-classed-as-medical-device.html
You can just imagine the scenario: "Hi, Mr. Smith, we're here from Meals on Whee.." BAM!
Anyhow, speaking of hand guns, what do you think of this one, which just lost its FDA endorsement as a "medical device." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16207-company-tries-to-get-gun-classed-as-medical-device.html
You can just imagine the scenario: "Hi, Mr. Smith, we're here from Meals on Whee.." BAM!
weaselkeeper
Silver Level Sponsor
I bought a Kimber Tac Pro II a few months ago after agonizing over the decision for better than a year. I'm convinced I make the right choice. The Kimber has a consistent light trigger pull that is the same EVERY time. That's critical for an accurate shot. The Springfield trigger I sampled was nowhere near as smooth. I have a couple hundred rounds through it now and am loving it. I also compare it with the Baretta M-9 that I have some experience with. I hit much better with the Kimber. If it wasn't for the noise, my wife would like it too. A little big for her hand, and WAY noisier than her .38 sp, she thought it was a nice handling weapon. She hits well with it too. I've shot a Glock .45 and it was a good gun. I just never could get past the 1911.
I carry the Kimber concealed on my right hip fairly often now. I carried it for about 14 hours yesterday and forgot it was even there most of the time. I think it's easier to carry concealed than the M-9 I'm more familiar.
BTW, My dad is about to give me his 9mm Luger that his grandfather brought back from Europe. Can't wait.
I carry the Kimber concealed on my right hip fairly often now. I carried it for about 14 hours yesterday and forgot it was even there most of the time. I think it's easier to carry concealed than the M-9 I'm more familiar.
BTW, My dad is about to give me his 9mm Luger that his grandfather brought back from Europe. Can't wait.