Fuel leak anyone.............

[moonstone SIV]

Can someone please clarify (John B. are you there?), how the nylon fuel line was originally joined to the carb. inlet on the Solex equipped SIV's? The parts book shows a tube described as a "coupling" (thanks Mr. Rootes, non specific as usual), which looks like a rubber tube without clamps or any sort of fastener.

The later cars have a fuel line with a thinner wall section and a metal nut that screws back on the pipe to crush it onto the carb. or fuel pump spout. Surely the earlier version didn't simply rely on a push fit and lots of luck.........

Thanks, Lance.

 

[doggone2]

fuel leak

Yep. You're discribing exactly what my IV looked like when I went to pick it up from after the engine re-build. The guys had to add a wire thin clamp on the nylon piece where it connects to the single Solex. I've since clipped off about 8 inches of the nylon fuel hose and slipped a rubber fuel hose over it. I've got two clamps on the rubber/nylon hose and another where the rubber hose attaches to the Weber carb. Some day I'll bend a metal fuel line as a replacement.

Doggone 2

 

[John Boggis]

Can someone please clarify (John B. are you there?), how the nylon fuel line was originally joined to the carb. inlet on the Solex equipped SIV's? The parts book shows a tube described as a "coupling" (thanks Mr. Rootes, non specific as usual), which looks like a rubber tube without clamps or any sort of fastener.

The later cars have a fuel line with a thinner wall section and a metal nut that screws back on the pipe to crush it onto the carb. or fuel pump spout. Surely the earlier version didn't simply rely on a push fit and lots of luck.........

Thanks, Lance.

Lance,here are a couple of pics of the original Smiths fuel line... which is a push fit, it is very secure and is a very tight fit helped by a long push on to the carb.

 

[moonstone SIV]

John,

Thanks for posting the extra pics. I couldn't quite see the detail I needed on your Alpine site, now I see what the parts book was describing.

I find it incredible that Rootes let such an ill concieved idea leave the assembly line in the first place. I wonder how many Alpines have been lost over the years due to under bonnet fires that started when the fuel pressure blew this joint apart and sprayed petrol over the manifolding.

I'll be fitting the slightly later nylon fuel pipe that fits over the carb. spout and is held securely with a nut. May not be factory correct for a SIV, but I'll feel far happier knowing I'm not driving a mobile bonfire!

 

[65beam]

fuel leak

this solex was a horrible carb. back in the seventies i had an under hood fire due to it. rootes did not do their homework when they decided to install these carbs. they leaked fuel and i had problems with the choke tubes and the depression chamber coming loose. it's no wonder that so many have been replaced with weber carbs.

 

[Ken Ellis]

Doesn't one factory carb setup have a fuel overflow tube that exits directly onto the exhaust manifold, by design? I think there was service bulletin on a diverter that appeared later on...

I was never able to get the white nylon T-fitting to work on my carbs... might have been the wrong part. I ended up using a brass compression fitting T, with either a short length of pipe, or a hose-barbed screw-in adaptor in the third leg of the T for the rubber fuel supply line. Far better than the nylon generic vacuum-tube T with ty-wraps that the car came with...

Ken

 

[65beam]

fuel leak

series 4 cars with the single solex had the overflow clamped to the exhaust. that was the cause of the fire on the series 4 many years ago. there were some fuel T fittings for the side drafts that were too large an inside diameter to seal on the carbs. they still leaked with clamps pulled tight. the ones that SS sells now fit good. i used one on the 69GT carbs.

 

[John Boggis]

this solex was a horrible carb. back in the seventies i had an under hood fire due to it. rootes did not do their homework when they decided to install these carbs. they leaked fuel and i had problems with the choke tubes and the depression chamber coming loose. it's no wonder that so many have been replaced with weber carbs.

Bob, The Solex carb is a topic that has come up quite a few times here in the UK. The consensus by the professionals is that the Solex was not that bad a carb. What it did need was regular servicing every three to five years.
I wonder how many folks on this forum have the carb on their Alpine serviced at regular intervals, even though thousands of gallons of petrol go through these tiny bits of engineering. My own experience with a Solex is limited as i have only driven a couple of thousand miles in my car. But what I can say is the car always starts first time,quickly settles down to a constant smooth tick over and gives instant response when pulling away...in fact it has been faultless, it does not leak fuel and the car never smells of petrol,but i have had my carb serviced.
As far as under bonnet fires are concerned most are caused by brake fluid not petrol. a small drip from the carb would not cause a fire in fact part of the series IV design was to have a overflow tube dripping diectly onto the exhaust manifold. All the Alpine fires I know about in the UK were caused by brake fluid not petrol.

 

[65beam]

fuel leak

john,
i understand that you have only driven your car a few thousand miles. after high school the series 4 was my main source of transportation. it was driven every day. i put many miles on it and drove all over the midwest and the east coast. i have no idea how many miles are on the car. after awhile i started having problems with the depression chamber attaching screws working loose. that eventually became a big problem. no secondary. i had one of the choke tubes come loose also. the correction jet coming loose and going thru the intake valve and hitting the piston gave me a good reason to build the race engine in 1970. of course i drove the car VERY HARD all the time. and as far as gas not causing fires, i disagree. did you ever stop to think why they put that drain on the car. they would leak gas all the time after being shut off. my wife can tell you what happens after shutting the car off and one of the neighbors running to tell her the car was burning. i even married her later just to make sure i had extra money to keep the car going. only damage was to the hood. i have several of these carbs including a new one and they do make good paper weights. just the opinion of someone that became a very happy sunbeam owner after doug jennings convinced me to swap out to the weber. never a carb problem since.

 

[John Boggis]

Bob... sounds like your confirming what i said in that the Solex needs regular servicing. remember by 1970 when you had the serious problems with your Solex it was already five years old and as you said your car had done many hard miles. By this time the carb should have had a full strip down and any loose or worn parts replaced whilst being serviced.

Maybe if your carb had been serviced at the correct intervals your Alpine's fire could have been prevented.Why Restoration?

Below is a quote from SU carburetters who serviced my Solex here in the UK


Carburetters are often the most overlooked part of a classic car.

This is because they look like static objects with no moving parts other than the throttle and choke. But every drop of fuel you use passes through your carburetter's tiny jets and passages. Over the life of your car that adds up to a lot of fuel - 4,000 gallons or more - and eventually there may come a time where no amount of tuning will eradicate poor running.

Inevitably erosion will occur as the fuel itself is abrasive, and throttle spindles wil wear just like any other shaft. A slack shaft will allow an incorrect fuel/intake mixture into the engine, leading to erratic running that is impossible to cure.

The only solution is restoration of the carburetter, returning it to full working health without destroying the integrity of your classic.

 

[Limey]

I know of two UK club members who both suffered engine fires caused by carbs and not brake fluid. Can't see how brake fluid in an Alpine set up could meet with an incandescent heat source to cause a prolonged enough and hot enough fire.

One fire was caused by a back fire through the air filters that set the bonnet sound proofing alight and I haven't seen a set of Zeniths that didn't have the typical leak stains.

When something wears out it should not really fail so that the car is a charred wreck but hey ho.

Don't know much about your carbs but others here seem to know their failings under the usual hard ownership.

Lets admit it. Rootes fitted some crap to their cars, especially later on.

Oliver

 

[MikeH]

John,

Thanks for posting the extra pics. I couldn't quite see the detail I needed on your Alpine site, now I see what the parts book was describing.

I find it incredible that Rootes let such an ill concieved idea leave the assembly line in the first place. I wonder how many Alpines have been lost over the years due to under bonnet fires that started when the fuel pressure blew this joint apart and sprayed petrol over the manifolding.

I'll be fitting the slightly later nylon fuel pipe that fits over the carb. spout and is held securely with a nut. May not be factory correct for a SIV, but I'll feel far happier knowing I'm not driving a mobile bonfire!

Here's a link to a nice tool for making wire clamps. Saw this at a car show and swap meet at Daytona Beach, Florida.

http://www.akcooltools.com/clamptite.html

And their official website:

http://www.clamptitetools.com/home.html

No affiliation

 

[65beam]

fuel leak

john,
you're missing part of what i said. plus you confirmed what i said. if you run 4000 gallons of gas thru the carb at 25 mpg, that's 100000 miles. yes, it has wear at that point and may need a remanufacture. wonder why yours needed this kind of repairs after only 9000 miles? that confirms that the solex is not the best design. for the use that you give the car, the solex will be ok. but if you were to drive the car everyday, you might want to consider some of the upgrades that have come about due to what long term owners have learned from owning and driving the car for a long time. kudos to you for keeping your car original. but practicality and safety have to be important also. i never want another fire in one of my cars nor do i want them to be something that could be a safety problem for us or the kid since he drives it more now than i do. all i have to say is watch the potential problems that have been mentioned. don't let those problems destroy your car.

 

[John Boggis]

wonder why yours needed this kind of repairs after only 9000 miles?

Bob,as you are aware low milagage on a classic car does not guarantee mint condition. Although my Alpine had been well preserved by it's previous owner, forty five years will take it's toll on any classic.
So when I decided to detail the engine bay i felt it was a good time to get serviced some of the major parts. I had the radiator,dynamo,servo and carb all cleaned and serviced by specialist companies. the rest of the engine bay took over 200 hours to clean and restore back to factory condition using the original parts.

Below is before and after of the solex carb. The pictures on my web page are of the carb before cleaning.

 

[65beam]

fuel leak

john,
if you ever need a new carb,let me know. i have one new one that i can't get anyone to buy. i also have several rebuild kits for them. i'm aware of the time it takes to detail an engine compartment. check out my photobucket site and look at the detail of my engine compartments. it's not an overnight deal especially when you go one step farther on many items. the advantage i have is that i do everything except the polishing. i now have to find another shop to do that since the person that did my polishing passed away a few weeks ago.