Flame Trap Question

[howard]

At least, I- in my somewhat limited mechanical understanding, THINK I'm talking about the flame trap! It's that 3" or so diameter metal canister with two 3/8" hoses going to and from it that sits atop the engine. Since I have it off and was replacing the hoses that go to it, I looked inside (via the hose connections, since it doesn't come apart) and GLORY! It was plugged airtight. Surely this isn't what the manufacturer wanted. So the question: How can I bring this up to an operable condition? What kind of fibrous stuff was originally on the inside? and Would it have had any effect on how my car was running?

Thanks!

 

[Green67Alpine]

Well, when I look in mine it looks like course steel wool(very course). I'm not sure what it does or even what it is suppose to do. My guess is that it's some type of filter, that recirculates vapors from the engine back through the carbs. Can't see through it just the filling from each "port". What is your blocked with? Can you drill it out?

Tom j

 

[Nickodell]

Bad, bad!! You guys forgot your high school chemistry class already? C Minus!

Wire mesh, gauze or even a pad of steel wool will stop a flame from passing through. In the old class demo you held a piece of metal gauze over a bunsen burner, turned on the gas and lit it above the gauze, but it wouldn't pass down through it to the burner.

The flame trap does exactly what it says, it catches any flame that might possibly blow back from an explosion of gasses in the crankcase, preventing them from torching the top of the engine, carbs etc.

Explanation: The metal conducts away the heat of the flame and lowers it below the ignition point of the gas or gas/air mix. The same principle was used in the first safety lamp for mines, invented by Humphrey (later Sir Humphrey) Davey in 1815. Prior to this, miners just used candles, and explosions from methane gas were common. The Davey lamp surrounded the candle (and later, whale-oil lamp) with a cylinder of metal gauze. It was introduced in mines in 1816. Oddly, the famous engineer George Stephenson (he of the first sucessful steam locomotive) produced a similar design and introduced his in 1816 too, and for several years Davey and Stephenson accused the other of stealing their idea (this was in the days before patents). Obviously, Davey had better P.R., or we would be calling the device the Stephenson safety lamp.

 

[64beam]

Hi Howard,

The WSM instructs you to use kerosene (parafin) to disolve any oil residue within the flametrap, then leaving it inverted to drain all the liquid/gunk out before reinstalling it again. If you neglect your crankcase ventilation system, it can cause sludge and condensation to form in the engine increasing engine wear.

Regards, Robin.

 

[howard]

Tom and Robin- The gunk is actually a hardened oily substance (somewhat like asphalt, but not as hard). I was able to use mineral spirits to dissolve quite a bit of the stuff out. I may just submerge it in diesel fuel for a day or two, then flush it out to remove the fuel.

Nick- Does this mean all I need to do is refill the canister with a coarse steel wool? And do you think I can use my silver nitrate and lye/ammonium nitrate to get a really cool mirror-like effect? Just a thought!

Thanks!

 

[Nickodell]

No. The steel wool contains tiny loose pieces that would be drawn into the engine, with less than desirable results. I learned this to my cost when I mistakenly used it to clean the track of my model railway layout. Oh, it cleaned the rails OK, but the little bits of steel were picked up by every locomotive's permanent magnet motors. Aaagh

 

[howard]

So I'm up the creek without the paddle? There's no way to refurbish this? I'm DOOMED?!?

 

[gordonra]

Try Brake-Clean... that stuff will take most any gum/tar/adhesive....

 

[Nickodell]

My brain must have been in neutral when I wrote that the flame trap is intended to stop an explosion in the crankcase passing out into the engine bay. It is, of course, intended to work in the opposite direction, to stop a backfire in the inlet manifold igniting any combustible gases in the crankcase, with undesirable results.

Howard: get a can of MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) from the hardware store and fill the cannister with it, plug the inlet and outlet hoses and shake the cannister vigorously for a minute. Then drain and repeat until the MEK comes out reasonably clear. This should dislodge and wash out the oily crap OK. MEK is a powerful solvent similar to acetone (dimethyl ketone) but with slower evaporation. Both solvents are highly flammable (or inflamable - Brit.). so do it outside and far from any ignition source. And check with your local authorities about disposing of the waste.

 

[howard]

I really think the stuff I'm dislodging now is the actual pieces of the steel mesh. Is there any sort of wire mesh I can use to replace what's in the trap? Do they make a lantern mesh replacement?

 

[mikephillips]

I don't know that there is a replacement. About all I could suggest is getting a fine wire mesh and cutting sever circles out of it that would fit inside. That also assumes you'd bend open the flange around the cylinder and open the thing up rather than trying to stuff it through the holes.

 

[Green67Alpine]

How 'bout using one of those stainless steel kitchen scrubbie pads, they've got much courser "fibers" than steel wool. They also come in a copper type, McMaster Carr.com Metal Scouring Scrubbers.
maybe they'll work / maybe not, just stuff them through the holes.
just a thought.

Tom j
By the way what color is that thing suppose to be anyway ? right now mines flake silver and rust, nobody else even had one(that i remember) at the SOS

 

[howard]

I thought the same thing initially: a coarse metal scrubbing pad that wouldn't fall apart (thus addressing Nick's observation). But I feel like it might not work because of it's lack of density. I'd have to experiment to see if it worked.

Color? Mine's a flaky-silver. I may repaint if I can find a similar color.

 

[finally]

Anybody have a pic of what this flame trap thing is??? I've been watching the post with great curiosity but haven't been able to figure out where the thing is on my car... newbie type question I know but teach away!

 

[Alpine 1789]

Anybody have a pic of what this flame trap thing is??? I've been watching the post with great curiosity but haven't been able to figure out where the thing is on my car... newbie type question I know but teach away!

There is one on eBay right now. The hose isn't very good and there is no way of knowing how clean the inside of the trap is, but its a start.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sunb...020QQitemZ300155117875QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


However, this discussion got me thinking: can our cars be the only LBC's ones that used this arrangement? That would be pretty unusual. I checked Moss Motors and found this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sunb...020QQitemZ300155117875QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW.

Note item number 20 on the 1970-71 TR6. It sure looks close. I also took a look on eBay to see if there were any Triumph flame traps there. I don't know if this is the same or not (it doesn't look quite right, unless those are replacement hoses on the ends), but it could probably be adapted.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NOS-Triumph-T...ryZ27383QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Does anyone know someone with a '70 or 71 TR6? It would be an easy way to see if the parts are interchangeable.

 

[Nickodell]

Tom J and Howard: one of those scrubbing pads would do fine, so long as it isn't one with soap included. I'm not sure that the steel ones are really stainless. They may just be bright mild steel, in which case copper would last longer.

 

[howard]

I bought a copper mesh scrubbing pad, and it has no soap in it. Appears to be well made, so it won't fall apart. I spent time with the trap and a blowtorch yesterday trying to unsolder the crimp: NO SUCH LUCK. It apparently was made to remain together for all eternity. At least I was able to get all the innards out. This thing was so badly corroded all that came out was a tarry mess that had the consistency of topsoil I believe I can manipulate the copper mesh back through the tube(s) and refill the trap so it at least offers SOME reason for it's existence!