Classic Car Market.

[64beam]

Hi Forum,

My Dad gave me a copy of the February 07 Classic and Sports Car Magazine after he finished reading it and I read a short article regarding the classic car market. As this is a UK magazine, I assume they are UK statistics but some say the market is weak and others saying it is strong. Going by the trends in the UK, the 50's and pre WWII cars, seem to be taking a dive and people are looking at usable 60's and 70's cars instead. There has been alot of interest in Japanese cars, with alot of interest in the Sunbeam Rapier Fastback's. One thing that I really liked to read was that they suggested MGB's have died right off ( we may be looking at some price increases for our Alpine's ).

Regards, Robin.

 

[alpine_64]

If the price of MG's dies, am sure alpines will be lower than them...

 

[Tullamore]

No, its probably just because the MGBs are ugly.

 

[V6 JOSE]

No, its probably just because the MGBs are ugly.

MGB's are definitely UGLY, but I think Michael is right.

Jose

 

[skywords]

OOH OUCH I have always had a soft spot for the MGB. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have owned some of the ugliest airplanes, in fact they are so ugly they are beautiful. Go figure.

Rick

 

[Nickodell]

I have owned some of the ugliest airplanes, in fact they are so ugly they are beautiful. Go figure. Rick

The B24 sure was ugly, but carried twice the bombload of the B17 "Flying Fortress," hundreds of miles farther, had a higher ceiling, went 50mph faster and they made twice as many of them. But it was the sleek-looking Fort that everyone babbled about and got all the press publicity. I defy anyone to find a WWII movie on similar lines to The Memphis Belle or The War Lover about the B24.

 

[skywords]

Nick
You are right the B-24 looks like the afterbirth of a basket rat. But in the air it is one of the most beautiful airplanes ever made. It's high aspect ratio wing and double fin completely hide it's hiduos fuse. The Sokko 522 is another airplane that looks bad on the ground but in the air it's great. The movie Kelly's Heroes has one that strafes them in the woods. And I think they blew several up on the ground in a later scene, what a shame. I still like the MGB, we have a fellow here in Tucson that restored one beautifully and looks as good as any Beam ( I'll pay for that statement)

Rick

 

[Series6]

Lower Alpine Prices?

If the price of MG's dies, am sure alpines will be lower than them...

Try telling that to a guy who got one from his old college roomate (which has been sitting under a tree rusting away, for the last 12 years) and still plans to "drop a V8 in it".

The conversation normally goes "Well I seen them on e-bay go for $8000. This one just needs a little tlc. I figure it's got to be worth about $5000."

"Yeah, but the one on e-bay runs and doesn't have a family of feral cats living in it, and doesn't have the left rear quarter panel caved in."

 

[V6 JOSE]

Nick
You are right the B-24 looks like the afterbirth of a basket rat. But in the air it is one of the most beautiful airplanes ever made. It's high aspect ratio wing and double fin completely hide it's hiduos fuse. The Sokko 522 is another airplane that looks bad on the ground but in the air it's great. The movie Kelly's Heroes has one that strafes them in the woods. And I think they blew several up on the ground in a later scene, what a shame. I still like the MGB, we have a fellow here in Tucson that restored one beautifully and looks as good as any Beam ( I'll pay for that statement)

Rick

Rick,

I doubt that anyone will give a hard time for expressing your personal tastes. We don't all like the same things. I guess it is the reason why even ugly guys, like me, eventually can get married.

I can admire any car that has been done correctly, whether it is an Alpine, or even a, "GAG", MGB. I just don't prefer them.

Jose

 

[Nickodell]

Nick
You are right the B-24 looks like the afterbirth of a basket rat. But in the air it is one of the most beautiful airplanes ever made. It's high aspect ratio wing and double fin completely hide it's hiduos fuse. Rick

My dad was complimentary of the B24s that he flew in, remarking that the systems were exceptionally well designed and finished. One of the things the crews didn't like was that in a crash landing the 24 frequently came apart like a crushed beetle. The high wing gave nothing like the ground effect of the the B17. The 17, in contrast, with its large, low, wing and the main gear wheels that protruded below the nacelles even when retracted, often came to rest largely intact. In a water landing, there was no contest.

The B24 Liberator saved countless sailors' lives in the Battle of the Atlantic and was a decisive factor in its ultimate victory. With its exceptional range (it was designated by the British as a VLRAS, or Very Long Range Antisubmarine) it could go way out over the Atlantic where no other aircraft - even the Sunderland - could, and catch UBoats on the surface. The first production B24s went to Britain under Lend-Lease before the US entry to WWII. Among the first to go into British service were six used as transatlantic airliners with BOAC. RAF Coastal Command, from the UK and Iceland, and the RCAF from Canada then began to use them as UBoat hunters by day and night, using radar and the Leigh Light (an exceptionally powerful floodlight under one wing to illuminate the sea), and the USAF joined in late in 1942. By the end of the war the Liberators had destroyed 72 UBoats.

However, the aircraft suffered heavy losses too, especially when Adm. Donitz ordered the UBoats to be equipped with multiple 20mm antiaircraft cannon and stand and fight on the surface. There are many instances of duels between B24s and UBoats, sometimes with the loss of both. An example: Royal New Zealand Air Force pilot Lloyd Allan Trigg was awarded a posthumous Victoria Cross (Britain's highest award for gallantry) following such a duel, off the coast of West Africa. Trigg's Liberator and its crew were lost, as was their foe, U-468. Trigg's VC is the only one ever awarded on the recommendation of enemy personnel — the seven U-boat crew members who survived.

 

[skywords]

My Pembroke I always thought would fair nicely in a water landing but the flight manual said only as a last resort. They recomended bailing out rather than ditching. The aircraft would stay afloat for only "Ten Seconds". Ten seconds does'nt give one time to undo the seat belt and wipe the bloody nose before you become a sub captain. I guess that explained the life rafts just under the emergency exit doors in the ceiling of the cabin. I suppose they found out the hard way with the Sea Prince.

Rick

 

[Nickodell]

Ten bloody seconds!? Er, I'll take the bus, thanks. However, even when the emergency instructions are encouraging, one always wonders if they are written as a genuine guide, or just to give one a warm feeling.

The Victor I flew in had a set procedure for bailing out, directing set procedure for the "three wise monkeys" (we in the rear of the cabin operating the magic boxes, who had no ejector seats) and two pilots. It went like this:

On the order Abracadabra, JUMP, JUMP the Air Elecrtonics Officer [the guy nearest the door] will leave his seat, push the seat fully forward [i.e. against the plotting table], deploy the door, slap the Navigator/Radar smartly on the back, attach his parachute static line to the swivel over the door and leave the aircraft. The N/R will then push his seat forward, slap the Navigator/Bombadier [me] smartly on the back, and follow the same procedure. The N/B will then slap the Second Pilot smartly on the back [hey, why am I the one who has to go up front and then back to the door?] and follow the same procedure. The Second Pilot will then deploy the cabin roof release and operate his ejection seat [what, no slap for the Captain?]. The Captain will then operate his ejection seat.

We practised this on the Ground Simulator every couple of weeks, but nobody really thought it even approached reality. The likelihood was that, instead of a nice, quiet simulator where up is up and down is down, you would instead be upside down, in a near-verticle dive, or spinning so that nobody could "leave his seat," with a cabin full of smoke and flying sextants etc. In private, one second dickey told me that after the Captain gave "Abracadabra, JUMP, JUMP" [chosen so as to be impossible to confuse with any other words] he would count to fifteen and after that all you would see would be an empty Martin Baker ejection seat rail. I'm glad that I never had to try it out for real.

And if you study the list of Victor accidents you'll find that rarely did more than a couple of crew survive. Often none. However, I will say that I don't believe there are any cases where an aircraft Captain was the sole survivor, so obviously several rode it in trying to give the others a chance.