Introduction.. and broken engine?

[Octanerudy]

Hello everybody, my name is Jason and I bought my first Sunbeam Alpine in October.
It's a 1963 Series 2 (built October of '62). I purchased it from the original owner's widow and the car had been sitting since 1977 in the same garage. After rousting all of the rodent tenants and fumigating the thing, I've begun trying to get her back on the road.

Onto my engine issue/question. I have already gotten a ton of information on this forum and have learned a lot about the different series and nuances of these cars. I pulled the engine/trans out recently, mostly to clean up and do gaskets. When I pulled the oil pan, the thrust washers were both laying in the sludge, each of them bent. Perhaps this is why the car was parked all those years ago? Who knows. It appears that the thrust washer towards the rear of the engine wore out first and as it ate it's way into the crankshaft, it spun. I'm planning to take the crankshaft out tonight (i pulled the center cap only so far) and check the block, but my suspicion is that the groove that the thrust washer is supposed to live in is no longer there. I'll know more later. Had anyone else here had this issue? Is there any hope that a new thrust washer set will stay put? I'll take some pictures of the area when I pull the crank.

Thanks! Jason from Conn.

 

[Ken Ellis]

Hey, welcome! And ouch. But better to know now than later. Driven 14 years and parked for 40. Hopefully miles are nice and low! Lots of people will replace early engines with later ones, but if it's original to the car and low miles, and you're diving in anyway, resurrecting the original engine could be worthwhile. But if the damage is as you suspect, maybe not. Lots of early series help will be along soon, but I have a later car and engine.

Keep the photos coming, and good luck!

 

[DanR]

Take lots of pictures of what you take apart (before and after). A word of caution do not throw anything away!

You could have a real jewel in a one owner Alpine!

 

[beamdream]

Re the crank, its well being will certainly depend on the amount of wear on the thrust surface where the washers should have been, this is probably the most difficult area to repair on these crankshafts, and of course the early series cranks are now hard to find in good condition.

But its not all bad news as a later series engine is a reasonably straight forward install job.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Welcome to the Alpine community! While you certainly have some challenges ahead of you, you have come to the right place to get answers. Not from me, I am afraid, I am not nearly a good enough mechanic to be able to help. But, fortunately, others here know far more than me and I am sure someone will be able to answer your questions.

 

[mightyohm]

Welcome to the forum. I've heard of the thrust washers falling out when the end play gets really bad. Pictures of the damage to the crank and the block would be helpful. If the damage is relatively minor, I believe oversize thrust washers are available. You'll have to measure the crank and block to see how much play there is. Do you have a copy of the workshop manual?

 

[Rick Young]

Hello Jason,
Welcome, this forum has been a great help to me and I'm sure it will be to you as well.
I have a 1963 series 3 project car that came with lots of parts Including a block.
My car is running thanks to a member's help so if you need to rummage thru my parts I'm in N.Y. In Westchester Co.
Good luck.
Rick Young

 

[Octanerudy]

Thanks for the welcome! I've been using the pdfs of the workshop manual in the Tech Data on this site. It is certainly useful. Thanks Rick, I might hit you up for parts. Looks like I might need a new block and crankshaft! Or I can take Ken's idea of swapping in a later engine.

Ok, I didn't have time to remove the crankshaft yet (got all the caps off and timing cover but need to pry the timing set off), but did get some pictures of the damage I can see so far. Rough measurement of the end play is .125" which is a lot. From what I've found, this should be .002/.004". Here are the pics, they are much better than description. You can see where the groove in the block on one side is much more shallow than the other. I'm assuming the grooves are supposed to be the same on each side. You can also see the wear on the crank thrust surface and the cap.

 

[mightyohm]

That doesn't look good. The thrust washers probably fell out long ago and the crank was allowed to grind against the block until the recess became flat. It is probably not cost effective to repair so I'd look for a new block and crank.

 

[chazza]

... Looks like I might need a new block and crankshaft! Or I can take Ken's idea of swapping in a later engine.
...

I have a S1 with the 1600 engine; it is such a delight to drive behind, think seriously about replacing it with the 1725.

Nothing wrong with the bigger engine, but because it is not square, it doesn't rev nearly so freely.

Welcome to the forum, I love your car!

Cheers Charlie

 

[volvoguys]

Jason .... just sent you a PM.