wrong clutch slave pushrod?

[dtbaker61]

ok, my clutch slave saga continues, and the plot thickens. I got a new clutch slave (from taiwan thru VB), which has identical dimensions to the Lockheed I removed so I am accepting the slave itself is probably the right one.

HOWEVER, at max 'pushed out' position I note that the top of the plunger is approximately even with the designed mounting face, and if I install the slave on the forward side of the bell housing as designed, the pushrod will be at least 3/4" too short... and probably blow out the end on a full pedal push when the clutch is wearing down and getting thin.

This explains why the PO had a stack of washers and mounted on the 'wrong' side.... but doesn't tell me whether the pushrod is the wrong one (perhaps from a series 1) or if the tranny itself is either assembled wrong after a rebuild, or from a different series. Has any other series 2 owner with a known 'stock' tranny ever measured the length of pushrod? Mine looks to be around 4.25" from end to pivot pin, and at least an inch short of where I would expect it to be!

So, The other thing I am wondering is if a series 2 owner with stock (non-booster) master pushes clutch pedal all the way, how much travel does that generate at the slave? This will help me determine a better offset distance.

All this being said, and not wanting to pull engine/tranny at this time, I am thinking to pu it back together with a good solid inch of washers or nuts to offset enough to make up for the short pushrod.

comments?

 

[65beam]

clutch

the slave needs to be mounted on the back of the bell housing. not on the front or engine side.

 

[dtbaker61]

the slave needs to be mounted on the back of the bell housing. not on the front or engine side.

hhhmm, the milled face on the slave would indicate that the slave is intended to mount on the front (engine side)... regardless, even if mounted on the back (tranny side) it looks to be a good 3/4" too short with my pushrod... explaining the stack of washers the PO had installed. ;(

 

[65beam]

slave

here is a little project for you. buy yourself a piece of all thread the same diameter as the push rod. cut off the yoke end of your push rod that fastens to the throw out bearing arm and drill a hole where the push rod was welded on. get two nuts to fit the all thread and cut one down to fit in the yoke. the other goes on the back. determine the length needed for the push rod, cut it and clean up the end where it sets in the slave. lock the yoke with the two nuts. this is a little trick i learned from doug jennings. keep in mind that these slaves fit other cars so what appears to be right may not be right for an alpine. putting it on the back of the bell housing is where it needs to be.

 

[dtbaker61]

here is a little project for you. buy yourself a piece of all thread the same diameter as the push rod. cut off the yoke end ....

certainly possible, although the all-thread would chew the crap out of the rubber boot as it moved in and out. seems way easier to add a stack of washers or nuts to move the slave close enough to use the short pushrod?


D

 

[65beam]

push rod

so buy a piece of steel rod and thread the end at the yoke. i have a couple that are all thread. the only purpose of the rubber boot is to keep things clean and no more than i drive the cars the boots are ok.

 

[sunbby]

Your push rod actually looks longer than the rod in my SV. My pushrod is 4" from end to the clevis pin, yours looks to be 4.5"

As others have suggested you may not have a SV release fork/pedestal. Especially the pedastal, as I think maybe the earlier versions are shorter and would put the release lever farther away causing your problem, maybe somebody else can clarify this.

Here is a pic of the stuff from my car:

 

[dtbaker61]

Your push rod actually looks longer than the rod in my SV. My pushrod is 4" from end to the clevis pin, yours looks to be 4.5"

My car is a series 2 (1962, mid production VIN I think).... probably VERY different than than SV. the pushrod I have is pretty close to 4.25" from end the pivot pin center, and I would guess about an inch shorter than it 'should' be, but I dunno until I hear back from a 'stock' series 2 owner.

 

[65beam]

slave

one thing i noticed is the length of the yoke and the return spring. my harringtons are based on series 2 cars and the yoke end is longer than yours. the spring was used on series 1 cars. anyone know when the change to the longer slave and the deletion of the spring was made?

 

[jumpinjan]

Bob & everyone,
The short slave, adjustable pushrod & return spring was only used on series I. I have NEVER seen them on a series II (which changed to the long slave cylinder & 4" pushrod).
It looks to me that someone put that spring on his pushrod. That spring is a brake shoe return spring from a GM car, I think. I have suspicions that someone really hack-up the whole clutch system. I would go through the whole thing, and get it all corrected.
Jan
Here's a picture of a series V throw-out arm assembly

 

[jumpinjan]

ALso, to check to see if the clutch release arm geometry is a go/no-go, look at the picture that I made up. The end of the pushrod should should be up in the bellhousing area and the arm is slightly angled forward.
(By the way, theres a series I adjustable pushrod in the picture)

 

[Chuck Ingram]

This is all so much fun and so informative

If it was an early pressure plate and it was R and R many times the rod would be short.However the early plates were adjustable as I found out.It seems if you read between the lines in the manual it told you how to do this.

As to slave cylinders I will be using a late slave on a 2.3.An adjustable rod is a defenite.Its making the spacer and an end for the clutch arm that is still in the planning stage.Yes it lines up with a slight enlarging of the hole in the bell housing bracket

 

[dtbaker61]

The VIN on my car b9108454 puts it pretty much in the middle of the series 2. The pushrod being 4" long might be correct, but the spring confuses the issue. If the pushrod IS the right length, then something inside the tranny is backward, or it might be a tranny from a different series I suppose....

Just to get to the bottom of it... if someone with a mid series 2 could post the length of their pushrod, it would eliminate that and put the issue on the tranny itself so I know where to look later.

Short-term though, I guess I will re-assemble with spacers so I can drive this summer!

 

[howstar]

i had the same problem ,
It the pivot or fulcrom you have to change ther different lengths .

 

[howstar]

YES had same problem you after replace the pivot for a new type

or put washer behind the pivot or fulcon behind the 2 bolts

what the clutch arm sits swings on

 

[65beam]

slave

with all the posts that have occurred i don't remember you saying what transmission you have. i did a quick scan of the posts and didn't see it mentioned. is it a full syncro or a non syncro on first gear? on a full syncro reverse is to the right and back. this could be the key to your problems.

 

[howstar]

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?categoryid=89


look at the parts catolog, i had mrk 1 engine and gearbox and fitting a later engine with diaphran clutch. i had take it out again, and fit a new arm and pivot or fulan. you could pack the fulcan out with longer bolts and use nut as spacer.

if you just put a longer in you end up smashing the bell housing as the arm will hitting the bell housing

 

[dtbaker61]

with all the posts that have occurred i don't remember you saying what transmission you have. i did a quick scan of the posts and didn't see it mentioned. is it a full syncro or a non syncro on first gear? on a full syncro reverse is to the right and back. this could be the key to your problems.

my reverse is to the LEFT and back... first is left and forward. I do not have any history on whether this is original tranny, or rebuilt, or replaced.

After looking at the picture below of the arm in forward and depressed positions, it LOOKS like mine may well have been rebuilt incorrectly, or completely worn, or 'something' because the rest position on mine is pretty close to 90 degrees relative to the driveshaft... meaning that the full stroke position will be significantly PAST 90... whatever the stroke of the piston creates when fully depressed.

anybody know what the stroke length is at the slave? It will help me set the offset such that under full depress it won't spit the piston out the back of the cylinder!

 

[agmason54]

wrong clutch slave

Dan
Someone has got the wrong clutch arm installed due to an engine or tranny swap....
Agm

 

[mikephillips]

Here's something to consider. When Ian's former B type Harrington was going back together I was a Jan's place while the engine and transmission were going back together. It had an original pressure plate assembly at the time that was being replaced with a new one supplied from one of our regular suppliers. And the release bearing arm moved too far.
The reason was that the replacement pressure plate was not as tall as the original, by half an inch or so, so the fork had to move further forward to work making the required slave travel too much.
I don't recall what we did, I think the pedestal was swapped for a later taller one and the forks swapped. But I can't say absolutely for sure as it's been too long.