Wiring a gear reduction starter

[Alpine 1789]

I thought I'd start a new thread on this, since it it unrelated to my previous thread on these starters. I don't know for sure yet that it will work with my header, but I am putting it in this weekend so that I'll be able to tell when the header comes back from being re-ceramic coated. (Dave at BritishStarter.com will take it back if it doesn't fit.)

Wiring the starter is pretty easy and it is designed to work with our without the existing external solenoid. I suspect that it would be best to use the starter's more modern internal solenoid, but hate to lose the ability to start the car from inside the engine compartment using the button on the stock solenoid. Can anyone think of a way to keep the stock solenoid starter button, but still use the solenoid on the gear reduction starter? Baring that, would it be possible to wire in a separate switch that did the same thing?

Not a big issue in the overall scheme of things, but worth a thought.

 

[Nickodell]

I haven't seen the exact configuration of the gear-reduction starter, but if there are external terminals connecting the main hot lead (from the battery) and the solenoid lead from the starter terminal on the ign. switch, you can start it by using a jumper across the terminals.

 

[Bill Blue]

Jim, how about running light wire, say 16 ga. from the battery terminal on the new starter to battery terminal of the Alpine solenoid. Then run a 16 ga. wire from the other large terminal on the Alpine solenoid to the small terminal (the one that connects to the ignition switch) of the new starter. That way the Alpine solenoid becomes a remote starter switch.

Bill

 

[Tom H]

Neat approach, Bill. But let's be sure Jim understands that he also needs to connect the battery cable to the big connection on the new starter. I think he knows that , but just to be sure.

And for Jim's application, or others looking in, if you have an original coil with a separate ballast resistor, you should also connect the bypass wire for the ballast resistor to some point that gets power when the key is in the Start position. NOt sure where best to connect that, as I do not have a gear reducion starter.

Tom

 

[65beam]

wiring

taking into consideration that the button on the solenoid has been known to stick when being used after setting unused for awhile, i wouldn't worry about how to wire it in.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Jim, how about running light wire, say 16 ga. from the battery terminal on the new starter to battery terminal of the Alpine solenoid. Then run a 16 ga. wire from the other large terminal on the Alpine solenoid to the small terminal (the one that connects to the ignition switch) of the new starter. That way the Alpine solenoid becomes a remote starter switch.

Bill

Thanks Bill. That makes sense; I'll give it a try and report back. And, Tom: I did know, but it never hurts to be sure. Finally, Bob: I've had a couple of solenoids fail on me, but never had a starter button stick. But, I'll be careful just the same.

BTW: the gear reduction starter has a terminal for the ballast resistor.

 

[SIVAllan]

gear reduction starter

I thought I'd start a new thread on this, since it it unrelated to my previous thread on these starters. I don't know for sure yet that it will work with my header, but I am putting it in this weekend so that I'll be able to tell when the header comes back from being re-ceramic coated. (Dave at BritishStarter.com will take it back if it doesn't fit.)

Wiring the starter is pretty easy and it is designed to work with our without the existing external solenoid. ...

Hi Jim,
What is the brand and source of the gear reduction starter? If you skip the internal solenoid - is it "plug n play?"

Thanks,

Allan

 

[Ken Ellis]

Looks like it's: britishstarters.com (with an "s").

From their site:
"These starters have a built in solenoid which can easily be bypassed if your car uses an external solenoid."

If it's like Scott's, it may need "clocked" or adjusted relative to the mounting holes in order to fit. Not sure if they're the same folks, or same starters...

Ken

 

[Ken Ellis]

Tom H, if I may be so bold as to propose an addendum to your statement:

"...you should also connect the bypass wire for the ballast resistor to some point that gets power when the key is in the Start position..."

Add: ...provided that point doesn't have a path to ground when the key is in Run position.

DAMHIKT.

Ken

 

[Tom H]

Good point Ken,

But some people might not understand the idea of a "Path to ground". Ater all, in the recent issues one could easily see that connecting the ballast bypass to the starter terminal provides a "path to the starter", which may not be so readily apparent that this is also then a "path to ground" .

So better is to say:

"...you should also connect the bypass wire for the ballast resistor to some point that gets power when the key is in the Start position..."

Add: ...provided that point is an isolated contact on one of the solenoids, so as to not provide an unintended path to ground."

Note that Jim's gear reduction starter has a ballast resistor bypass contact.

Nice job going back in the archives on this, Ken

Tom

 

[Ken Ellis]

(At the considerable risk of over-posting...)
I looked over that website, and didn't see any mention of a ballast resistor bypass. I did see discussion/diagrams regarding solenoid bypass -- the existing starter solenoid. But no ballast bypass. Proceed with caution...
(Or I don't have the right site.)

Ken

 

[SIVAllan]

Many thanks folks for the wealth of information. Airpine is not setup to use a ballast resitor but that's not been a problem in the past, SFAIK.

 

[Ken Ellis]

Jim wrote:
"BTW: the gear reduction starter has a terminal for the ballast resistor."

Just for the record, I don't doubt Jim's word on this -- I just don't see it mentioned or shown in the diagrams on the website. His starter could have different/updated terminals and documentation. Just don't want the magic smoke monster to pay anyone a visit.

Ken

 

[Alpine 1789]

I am not home right now, but will take a fresh look at everything when I get back on Monday. I though I stated it correctly, but will check the instructions when I get back.

BTW: Getting it properly 'clocked' with the Bill Atalla header can be challenging. Tom H did it with no trouble, but I had to grind off part of one of the mounting bolts in order to make it work. It was worth the effort though, as the car starts much better than with the stock one. And, thanks to the advice earlier on this thread, my old solenoid works just fine as a remote starter switch.

 

[SIVAllan]

I ordered a gear reduction starter today from britishstarters.com. A phone call to them verified that not using a ballast resistor is no problem with their starter; also that the solenoid on the starter can be skipped in favor of the factory solenoid.

 

[Tom H]

And my foot doctor tells me not to worry about taking my heart medication

Not sure how reliable advice about coils, points, ignitions, and ballast resistors you can get from the guys who make and sell starters.

Tom

 

[SIVAllan]

And my foot doctor tells me not to worry about taking my heart medication

Not sure how reliable advice about coils, points, ignitions, and ballast resistors you can get from the guys who make and sell starters.

Tom

don't trust vendors of specific products that interact with solenoids and ballast resistors....?

huh?

If not the vendor then who?

 

[RootesRacer]

If you are using the factory solenoid to start the car, the wiring to the new starter has no bearing on the ballast since the new starters motor and solenoid plunger would be wired direct to the factory solenoid (relay) starter output.

If you wanted to use the "new" starters solenoid (relay) output to bypass the ballast, some more thought would have to be put into it.

 

[Ken Ellis]

I think the reason they gave that answer is that's the answer to the only easy question. If you don't have a ballast resistor, no problem. It gets slightly more complicated if you do have a ballast resistor, and want to use their solenoid.

The truth table is this:

No ballast resistor and new starter and old starter solenoid = easy.
No ballast resistor and new starter and new starter's solenoid = easy.
Ballast resistor and new starter and new starter's solenoid = complicated.

The "complicated" case is the same as using a ballast resistor with a traditional, fender-mounted solenoid that does not have the special ballast resistor terminal on it. The thing that makes it "special" is that it has +12V on it during cranking, but is isolated (not grounded, but not hot) when not cranking. That's pretty straightforward to take care of with a relay, (which I have done on mine) or, of course, by sourcing a starter relay with a ballast resistor terminal.

But like Tom mentioned, just because they're good at their starters doesn't mean they're good at your ignition system.

 

[SIVAllan]

Thanks guys; the information is helpful not only to myself but to folks beyond this conversation who may be contemplating a gear reduction starter for their Alpine.

As it happens, Airpine does not use a ballast resistor as stated earlier.

The resistor is present but was not wired when the car came to me and I've left it that way through a couple of motors.

In fairness to the vendor, I'd guess the vendor gave that response as it is pertinent to the question asked. The guy on the phone did ask to call me back after consulting someone.

However by no means am I qualified beyond the very most elementary skill in electrics - hence the phone call as well as the information-sharing here.

Thanks again to all,