Why weren't there more Sunbean's sold?

[miket]

When I look at the MG's and compare it to my Sunbeam, it seems to me that the Sunbeam was/is a much better road car. In 66 I purchased a new Tiger and I drove that car to Florida, Aspen and Vancouver(from Montreal). It was just the greatest highway car.

So looking back, I wonder why there weren't more sold. It had better creature comforts, and to me, a much finer car.

What do you think?

 

[Bill Tubbs]

Chrysler, Chrysler, Chrysler, and uh... ummm.... lessee... er.... oh yeah. Chrysler.

 

[Series3Scott]

Chrysler is only part of the answer. They came along in 1964 but with minimal impact on the product. However, by 1966 their influence was being felt with cost cutting measures and consolidation.

The real answer to your question in my opinion is that Sunbeam had a weak dealer network compared to the competition. I don't know the exact ratio, but I'd bet the number of BMC dealers in the U.S. compared to Rootes dealers was 2, maybe 3 to 1. Yes, the Rootes products were better built, but MG, Triumph, and Austin-Healey also had a 10+ year head start. Their sports cars were already on our shores by the early 50's, when Rootes was still building solid, but stodgy sedans. A few people on the east and west coasts had seen Hillman Minxes, and maybe the odd Humber, but it wasn't until the Series Alpine that the general population took notice of Sunbeam. The UK labor strikes in the early 60's wiped away any momentum Sunbeam was building in the U.S., then Chrysler came along and ruined everything.

Chrysler, Chrysler, Chrysler, and uh... ummm.... lessee... er.... oh yeah. Chrysler.

 

[howard]

And the perception that Sunbeams were underpowered granny cars. (I don't agree... just passing the POV.)

 

[Tullamore]

Okay don't hate me for saying this but besides the Alpine/Tiger most of the other Rootes cars were ugly compared to what BMC was offering. And I hear the Alpine was always thought of as a ladies car.

 

[MikeH]

And I remember in my High School days there was one small dealership in town that sold odd cars; Saabs, Simcas, Hillmans, and Sunbeams.

 

[mikephillips]

Small dealer network, lack of financial resources and a failure to recognize that customer tastes were changing probably says it all. The sedans and such pay more of the bills than sports cars and they just didn't sell enough of them to stay independent as time went on. Not that it would have mattered much if they did. They were just the first, notice that within 15 years all the British sports cars were gone from not just the American market, but gone from all. And most of the old makers names gone as well, with only some badge engineering keeping a couple alive.

 

[Bill Blue]

There were several dynamics working simultaneously to prematurely kill the Alpine. One of them was the new Federal mandates that were phasing in. Bumper requirements and other safety items like collapsing steering columns made continuing the old body styles rather difficult. Also the Japanese imports were starting to have an impact.

Bill

 

[tony perrett]

I can't agree that the Rootes cars were ugly compared with BMC products. If the Rapier (based on the Studebaker Hawk) is placed next to a Morris Oxford, there is no contest.

 

[Armand4]

Besides the financial problems at Rootes and the lack of dealer support, the Alpine had the same problem that the Mazda Miata had 30 years later: It was too cute for its own good. The car's gorgeous lines, coupled with its hedonistic creature comforts (roll-up windows, for example, and relatively comfortable seats) gave it a bit of a reputation as a car that few "serious" sports car enthusiasts wanted to be seen in. Remember, when the first Alpines came out in 1959 they represented a new breed of sports car, at least in England. MGAs had side curtains rather than regular windows. Bugeye Sprites don't even have door handles. And the TR3 is primitive by almost any measure.
This "Secretary's car" reputation is one of the reasons the Rootes Competition department worked so hard to make the Alpine a winner on the track. With a few improvements from the Special Tuning catalog, the car was able to beat the MGAs and Porsche 356s in its SCCA class, which made people take it seriously. So now, nearly a half-century after the Alpine's introduction, we can feel smugly superior to MG drivers.

 

[britbeam]

Oh but how grateful I am for those little refinements that Rootes made over the other Britmobiles.
Dwain V6 Krazy

 

[65beam]

sunbeams sold?

the alpines were ahead of many of the comparable cars of the era as far as refinements for creature comfort, but they lacked the performance and handling of most cars in the same class when faced with a stock engine and suspension . coupled with the lack of dealers , this made it rough to sell cars . rootes had distributors that supplied the cars to dealers instead of buying direct as is the practice today .coupled with the financial problems rootes had this may have been a factor to the lower number of cars sold .there were three dealers in columbus , but two bought thru the larger dealer, which was george byers .speed was a going thing in the 60's and i can remember getting my doors blown away by TR's,MG's etc. the same guys that laughed at me then and told me to buy a real car still chuckle today as i cruise town in the same alpine . i would say dealers then sold whatever made more money just as they do now .i remember when my dad bought the series 4, the sales rep at byers was dead set to get him to buy a TR. dad said the single carb would be a lot less trouble so we drove the alpine home .

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Was it this club or another that had an article written by a former Rootes Dealer. If I remember he won a trip to GB and a tour of the Rootes factory for selling the most cars - or something. After seeing the factory he was so shocked that he switched to Toyotas, or maybe Volvos, and said it was the best move he ever made. I'd have to agree. Anyway they are still way better built than BL.

 

[alpine_64]

I think there are a few factors... but probably the biggest was Rootes itself. Sunbeam may have a great racing herritage, but that was pre-30's. In the 60's they were not known for sports cars. They produced a car that was ahead of its time for comfort and refinement and sold it in a segment of the market that was focused on speed and handling.

Even when the Tiger came out it was aimed as a Gt rather than a sports car, and the delaer network as mentioned was not geared to focus on sports cars..

Either way, we are all glad that they built the cars they did and the way they did.. as now we appreciate what they have to offer, not to mentino we have worked out how to make them handle and go a little better

 

[RootesRooter]

Except for the Tiger, Rootes cars were always a little too heavy for their limited power. Solidly-built is a plus, unless you don't have the ponies to make it go. Plus, like other Brit cars, they were designed first for mostly slower English roads. Imagine using your Sunbeam as a daily driver back when the universal U.S. freeway speed limit was 70mph, with Rootes cars having mostly gearing above 4.0:1 and most lacking the optional OD. A friend whose father owned a Rootes dealership up in B.C. said Sunbeam engines weren't considered very dependable until the Arrow came along with its 5-main bearing engine coupled to a single Stromberg. That one was still pretty slow, but he said it didn't come back to their repair shop as often.

Rootes had other, well-known problems as well, such as the rushed Imp introduction, the Easidrive that wasn't, and the SuperMinx line, which ended up designed too big to replace the current Minx range as intended, leaving an unwieldy number of offerings for a relatively small company.

A 1977 book called Chrysler U.K. - A Corporation in Transition, points to comparatively lackluster profits in the '50s, which probably limited U.S. dealer expansion. It also may have been that Rootes deliberately kept profits low for fear of being nationalized by the '50s Labor govt.

Dick Sanders
Kent, WA

 

[miket]

Thanks for the input gentlemen.

Hopefully I'll have mine running in June, and I'm certainly looking forward to crusing down the highway once again.

By the way, if anything makes you remember the 60's, it's having basically the same car, with the same color, as the the one you had when you were 21. Truely Deja Vu.

Mike

 

[napa 1]

Whatever the reasons, it sure makes Alpine ownership that much more interesting. I enjoy driving my little car that very few people are able to recognize. There are many many unloved MG's scattered all over town that don't get a second, or even first look. I can't wait to have my Harrington on the road for people to learn a bit more about Sunbeams. You should see Bill (Atalla) cruising around in his beautiful Harrington. There's absolutely nothing like it on the road.

 

[Lee DeRamus saoca0404]

To the best of my knowledge, the New Orleans area only had 2 dealerships that sold British cars. One was Sports Cars Inc. that sold MG, Triumph, Rolls, no Rootes cars. The other was Stephens Chevorlet, that sold Austin Healeys. I bought my first car, a used 55 AH 100-4 in 1964. The next year I traded it for a used 55 Jag XK140 FHC, that I still have. I used to wash cars at Sports Cars Inc. so I could get a discount on parts. The first time I saw an Alpine, it was an early Series high fin in a junk yard, while crusing for parts. The boot and bonnet were gone and I only knew what it was by the Sunbeam on the valve cover. I don't think they had very many dealerships on the Gulf Coast. I bought my Series II in 1979. A few years later, not knowing where to get parts, I decided to sell itfor "Best Offer". I put an ad in the New Orleans and Baton Rouge papers for a month. During that month, I din not receive ONE call. At that point, I decided to keep it. After another few years I offered it to my oldest daughter to drive to high school, because she loved it as a child. "I'm not driving that THING I want a new Grand Am !" was her reply. I was crushed. Now at 34 she wants it!!

 

[Series3Scott]

Louisiana Rootes Dealers

I have a listing for three Rootes dealers in Louisiana:

Love Motor Company in Baton Rouge (Hillman / Sunbeam)
Sport Cars, Inc. in New Orleans (Hillman / Sunbeam)

and Wray Import Motors in Shreveport (Hillman/ Sunbeam / Humber)


Only three dealerships in a big state!

 

[Lee DeRamus saoca0404]

All I know is that I worked at Sports Cars Inc. in 1964, 1965, and part of 1966
although it was part time, mostly on Saturdays, I didn't see a single Alpine. Thats not saying that they didn't sell them, but their main focus was on MG's and Rolls Royces. I had seen Alpines and Tigers in magazines, but had never seen one for real, until I found that one in the junk yard. And the only place I could buy parts for my Austin Healey was at the Chevorlet dealership.