Which 2.8 alternator?

[SIVAllan]

I fired up my 2.8 Series I v6 for the first time today.

That means it's time to install an alternator and hook up a fan belt to the pulley and fanblade.

Transisting from generator to an alternator will be done using Jose's brackets with minimal changes to factory wiring.

The Series I car is factory wired for a generator and external voltage regulator, so changes are in order.

Any information regarding specifically what changes would be greatly appreciated.

For example it looks like a modern alternator will include its own regulator - does the old regulator need to be removed?

I assume a two wire alternator would fit into the two generator wires - and send current through the generator's regulator and on through the wiring harness. That would keep in the system the old regulator and its risk of failure.

 

[DanR]

Suggested contact.....

Allan, Paul A is where I bought my wiring harness (Kit) for my '67 V when I started the restoration.

I am also using a single wire alternator. It is a Delco. The number slips me at present, but, I will get it for you tomorrow, if some one doesn't beat me to it.

There are some other Alternators being utilized but I am not that familar.

DanR

P.S. With the new wiring harness I eliminated to old voltage regulator,, etc fuse box

 

[SIVAllan]

Thanks Dan,

There's a lot of info floating around and eventually I'll make more sense of it.

I don't have any interest in replacing the entire Series I harness just to hook up an alternator, but would prefer to plug an alternator into the factory harness.

It'd be great if the regulator installed by the factory to work with a generator would also work ok with an alternator but I'll guess that it won't, so that's a starting point.

I have an old, non-working Series V alternator to use as a starting point regarding size and fitment &&&etc.

Also, I did switch the Series I Alpine to negative ground.

So, for now it's a matter of identifying which alternator/regulator combo fits a Series I Alpine (using Jose's brackets) with the fewest wiring changes.

 

[Chuck Ingram]

Like Dan the single wire Delco is best. One wireto the battery side of the solenoid and that's it

 

[SIVAllan]

Like Dan the single wire Delco is best. One wireto the battery side of the solenoid and that's it

I'm ok with a one wire, regulator included, alternator running off the solenoid.

After re-reviewing the Series I wiring chart, it looks like that could work without eliminating the ignition warning light or ammeter simply by removing only the two wires to/from the generator and leaving the rest (and the generator's voltage regulator) in place, so that's to the good if accurate.

 

[DanR]

Allan, Tom H is one of the best to get help from on electrical problems.

 

[Mike Armstrong]

If I hadn't already had an almost new Delco 3-wire, I wouldn't have gone though the trouble of figuring out how to use it on my SV (the correct wiring and $19 regulator fixed it). Otherwise I would have went with a modern, compact, single wire, much easier (as long as it included the dash light still working).

 

[SIVAllan]

I finally decided to hook up an AC Delco 10si "3 wire" so as to keep the Series I warning light and the amp gauge.

My unit is a NAPA 63 amp AC Delco clone, and it's now sitting pretty in the Darkside engine bay ready for wiring.

I'd be grateful for any comment on how to hook up the 10si clone alternator.

Two possibilities:

Wiring option #1:

Terminal 1 to ignition light - thence onward to the ignition switch;

Terminal 2 to the BATT pole on the alternator;

Batt pole on alternator to amp gauge thence onward to the ignition switch and onward to plus side of battery or coil or to the battery side of solenoid.

Wiring option # 2 - use factory Series I generator wiring and route current through the generator voltage regulator


Terminal 1 - connect to factory yellow generator wire (which goes to regulator terminal "D" and from "D" to the ignition light and onward to solenoid

Batt - connect to factory yellow/green generator wire going to regulator pole "F"

Regulator pole "A" goes to amp gauge and onward to battery

Regulator pole "A1" goes to ignition switch

Terminal 2 - connect to starter side of solenoid….

Thanks in advance,

 

[Paul A]

Tom

The 10si is internally regulated. The hookup is very easy and does not require the external regulator. So - did I miss something?

I finally decided to hook up an AC Delco 10si "3 wire" so as to keep the Series I warning light and the amp gauge.

My unit is a NAPA 63 amp AC Delco clone, and it's now sitting pretty in the Darkside engine bay ready for wiring.

I'd be grateful for any comment on how to hook up the 10si clone alternator.

Two possibilities:

Wiring option #1:

Terminal 1 to ignition light - thence onward to the ignition switch;

Terminal 2 to the BATT pole on the alternator;

Batt pole on alternator to amp gauge thence onward to the ignition switch and onward to plus side of battery or coil or to the battery side of solenoid.

Wiring option # 2 - use factory Series I generator wiring and route current through the generator voltage regulator


Terminal 1 - connect to factory yellow generator wire (which goes to regulator terminal "D" and from "D" to the ignition light and onward to solenoid

Batt - connect to factory yellow/green generator wire going to regulator pole "F"

Regulator pole "A" goes to amp gauge and onward to battery

Regulator pole "A1" goes to ignition switch

Terminal 2 - connect to starter side of solenoid….

Thanks in advance,

 

[SIVAllan]

Tom

The 10si is internally regulated. The hookup is very easy and does not require the external regulator. So - did I miss something?

Paul,

Hookup needs to include the idiot light and the amp gauge.

The old generator and associated wiring needs to go away.

(Alternatively it occurs to me that that old regulator and wiring could be kept and used if desired.)

I'm sure this *is* easy for the experienced, just not experienced with wiring *at all.* So yeah, you did miss something.

 

[Paul A]

Let me help Allan

First of all I did not mean to imply anything negative about your experience. The 3 wire hookup is straightforward and can retain both the dash warning light and the ammeter. I will send complete directtions to you via email.

Paul,

Hookup needs to include the idiot light and the amp gauge.

The old generator and associated wiring needs to go away.

(Alternatively it occurs to me that that old regulator and wiring could be kept and used if desired.)

I'm sure this *is* easy for the experienced, just not experienced with wiring *at all.* So yeah, you did miss something.

 

[Paul A]

Delco 10si

On the back of the 10si is a "large" post marked BAT. A 10 gauge wire is connected between this post and the battery post on the starter solenoid - the post where the heavy wire from the battery is connected. There should be several male lugs on the battery side of the solenoid where this 10 gauge wire can be connected.

The other 2 wires to be connected are attached using a plug that fits into a receptacle on the 10si. The plug to fit this connection is available at almost all parts stores - Napa, Advance, O Reilly, etc. There are two wires coming from the plug - the red wire is attached to the BAT terminal. It is the sensor that regulates the output of the alternator. The white wire is connected to one of the wires leading from the dash warning light. You will have to splice some wire to this white lead in order to reach the dash light. The other wire from the dash warning light is connected to the "on" terminal of the ignition switch.

If you want to use an ammeter the 10 gauge wire leading from the BAT terminal on the 10si is connected to one of the terminals on the ammeter. A second 10 gauge wire is then connected from the other ammeter terminal to the large battery connection on the starter solenoid. Wired this way the ammeter will measure all current between the alternator and the rest of the wiring harness.

 

[Tom H]

Alan,

I wish you had mentioned this at the Invasion. I'll put some thought into this and study the SI wiring in the next day or so. Indeed there is no need for the SI regulator, but it might make sense to keep it in place simply as a junction points for the wires. BTW, not only is the original Generator regulator not needed, but it would not function at all as a regulator for an Alternator.

Tom

 

[SIVAllan]

Thanks Paul & Tom,

I am suggesting that the old wiring can be extended to the 10si alternator from the old generator's voltage regulator and enable the warning light and amp gauge to work - and possibly the voltage regulator can be left for use as a junction box.

(Thanks for supplying the term "junction box," Tom.)

Paul, I took your writeup and attempted to switch it around to hook into the wiring harness at the "junction box" (with the box removed) but there were a couple of questions.

If it makes more sense to run new wires I'll do so.

 

[Tom H]

Paul,

He DOES want to use the ammeter. But the way you suggest wiring it, is not correct. Wiring the ammeter the way you suggested, putting the ammeter between the Alt and the solenoid connection will, indeed, measure the current from the Alt to the rest of the harness. But that is not what an an ammeter is supposed to measure. The ammeter is supposed to measure current going from or into the BATTERY. It is supposed to show Positive when the battery is getting current from the Alt but also show Negative if current is coming out of the battery, as when the Alt is not working. Wired as you described the Ammeter will never show Negative.

Tom

 

[Paul A]

Paul,

He DOES want to use the ammeter. But the way you suggest wiring it, is not correct. Wiring the ammeter the way you suggested, putting the ammeter between the Alt and the solenoid connection will, indeed, measure the current from the Alt to the rest of the harness. But that is not what an an ammeter is supposed to measure. The ammeter is supposed to measure current going from or into the BATTERY. It is supposed to show Positive when the battery is getting current from the Alt but also show Negative if current is coming out of the battery, as when the Alt is not working. Wired as you described the Ammeter will never show Negative.

Tom

Tom - many autos are wired as I describe. Additionally, as you already know, I am not a fan of ammeters. Contemporary automakers all use volt meters - and for good reason. The ammeter takes the full load of the alternator output and under some circumstances can result in melted insulation and/or fire. A voltmeter actually shows more information than the ammeter, and is also safer to wire in since it takes no current and this allows the use of a small (1A or less) fuse.
regards, Pete

 

[Tom H]

Paul, when you say "many autos are wired as I described", I assume you mean "many individuals have wired their cars incorrectly like this". That's true. In fact one of the most well known Alpine Alt conversion articles had this error.

But no factory wiring was ever done so. There would be no need to have the meter face show + and - directions, as it will never show a negative reading when wired this way.

I tend to agree with you regarding use of a voltmeter. In fact decades ago the company I worked for, Hickok Instruments produced a nice analog indicator they called a Chargicator, which was a voltmeter with a skewed dial, such that the main portion of the dial covered the 10 V to 15 V range, and had the dial marked with green, yellow and Red areas to help the motorist understand how to interpret the dial. This is the only problem with a voltmeter - how to interpret. With an Ammeter it's pretty straightforward: + means your charging system is working , and - means it's not keeping up.

I still like the idea of a voltmeter, but have not bothered to switch my car.

For Allan, I will figure out how to use the old parts as a "Junction box" to wire up his ammeter .

Tom

 

[Paul A]

Hi again Tom

I did not mean that individuals have rewired their electrical system. Many trucks, tractors and cars were wired from the manufacturer as I described.

Glad you like the voltmeters. Much safer. regards, Pete

 

[Tom H]

Allan, I assume the ammeter is already installed and wired into your original Series 1 Generator wiring , right?

That will make it easy to wire up the Alt

Tom

 

[Tom H]

Allan,
You are pretty close in your Option #2:, with the changes I indicate in Bold

Wiring option # 2 - use factory Series I generator wiring and route current through the generator voltage regulator

(stated more correctly: AROUND the generator voltage regulator)


Terminal 1 - connect to factory yellow generator wire (which goes to regulator terminal "D" and from "D" to the ignition light and onward to solenoid
(actually from the ignition light it goes to the Ign switch, not the solenoid)

Batt - connect to factory yellow/green generator wire going to regulator pole "F"

Regulator pole "A" goes to amp gauge and onward to battery

Regulator pole "A1" goes to ignition switch
( you'll want to connect all three of these wires (at the regulator end) together. Either all connected to Term A or not connected to anything other than each other)

Terminal 2 - connect to starter side of solenoid….
(or you can just connect it to the Batt terminal - whichever is easiest to do)

Thanks in advance,

You're welcome.

Tom