What should I do?

jessieherrera · May 4, 2013

Hi,
I have a 67 Sunbeam Alpine with a 6 cylinder V6 Chevy. It seems to have a lot of power, but I really like the Tigers, but I can't afford one. When I bout the car the owner stated that he wished he had put a small block Ford in it.
Well, I have a dilema. I purchased a 302 and T5 to swap them in, but from what I see the "Algers" aren't really worth much. The question is not that I'm looking to get a lot of money should I ever sell it, but rather is it more preferred to do some major work and put a 440 Chrysler in it. I have about 4 440's from the late 60's and I'm sure that car would really scream. Now, would you consider that swap unorthidox and go with the Ford or really make it exotic. I have all the resource for putting in the 440, but would it be worth it? I see where others have put even big chevys into them as well as big Fords. Since Chrysler owns Rootes, or at least they did, would it be worth while to put the 440 in? I'm looking for a long time self interest car. I know that the 440s cook as I have slightly built truck with one and a Duster with the actual six pack motor in. It would cost me roughly the same to do either swap in, but would it be worth it come selling time? I really like exotic cars. Anybody have any input? Thanks.

Chuck Ingram · May 4, 2013

First of all a 440 would be to heavy and much more work involved.
The 302 or a stroker 302 conversion still needs a lot of work but is a good motor for this.As well the dizzy is front mounted.For starters the steering must be replaced and work on the crossmember as well.The firewall needs a lot as it must be cut to fit the 302.Motor mounts. transmission mounts and driveshaft need to be reworked and or fabricated.The MCs need to be moved.

If you are really worried about an Alger not being worth too much I would say you better go and buy an original Tiger.To me both my cars are worth as much and I would not trade them for a Tiger

Remember it is your car.If the Chev V6 runs great I would look into improving performance.The 2.8 Ford V6 is easily capable of 200 horses so why not a Chevy V6

SDuncan · May 4, 2013

There is an Alpine for sale in Montana that has a 340 in it. The guy is asking something like $11000 for it and it has been for sale for a long time. Perhaps it is worth that to the seller and possibly to some buyer, but I think with swaps like that you shrink the pool of people interested in the car. Doing any swap is rarely an opportunity to make one's money back let alone make a profit. If the Chrysler motors turn your crank, then go for it.

Barry · May 4, 2013

Some food for thought.

A short-deck small block Ford V8 weighs about 450 pounds, is about 29" long and 22" wide and BARELY fits in a HIGHLY modified Alpine.

A 440 Chrysler weighs about 650 pounds and is about 30" long and 30" wide.

Do the math.

DanR · May 4, 2013

I for one have a '90 Chevy V6 camara w/auto OD and studied the possibilities of a conversion in one of my SIV Alpines.

After looking and listening to the Membership on this Forum I decided to utilize a proven conversion by V6 Jose.

I purchased a '75 Mustang II for the basic parts needed. Bought a '97 Mustang 3.8 V6 T5 Transmission which simplifies the conversion.

I would suggest looking very closely at keeping and perhaps beefing up the present confguration you have. Or better go to the V6 Jose conversion. It's a very nice package and there ara a lot of them on the road.

jessieherrera · May 4, 2013

V6 vs V8

Hi,
Thank you guys for the input. One thing is that when the previous owner put in the V6 he installed a MGB rack and pinion so it seems to give me the room for the V8 configuration. I already have the dimensions for the firewall modification though I was going to cut the firewall around the motor and trans. More of a try and fit as I go along. If I had my heart set on a V8 do you think the Ford is a more orthadox swap than the Mopar? I have all the tools I need for most anything I want to do. I also have access to brakes and shears in an autobody class I'm taking. At home I have a plasma cutter and a full size mig and Tig. I also have all the mounts for the Ford. Where I seem to have the most trouble is in finding an adequate rear end. I have a posi 8.8 and a 8". Both will obviously need modification. I realize that the big block will obviously take much more effort, but I'm retired and except for class I have lots of free time. I guess I'm experimenting more than anything else.
Many years ago a friend of mine had a stock Alpine and took me for a ride. That car was really fun to ride in. Going on the wishes of the previous owner I am leaning towards a V8, not a six. Maybe the Mopar is kind of out there, but it was just a thought. Has anyone here done a big block swap and how do you like it? If any of you have a small V8 Ford what are the downfalls and how do you like it? What would you do different?

Chuck Ingram · May 5, 2013

I have a 351 windsor in the 64.I have the ford racing 302 in the 62.Both have motorsport T 5 transmissions.Both have 8 inch ford rear ends but not shortened as I'm running full flared fenders.

Shortcomings? Can't say I have any other than when I first ran the 351 I had hot running problems which were solved.The 302 is fantastic and gobs of power.The 351 although only 270 HP but has 330 pounds of torque pretty well across the 1500 to 5000 RPM.I can actually start in fifth.
I used to like high speed but age has caught up.Now I just like to downshift around 25 to 30 and then floor it and feel myself pushed back into the seat for a couple of seconds.

As I previuosly stated I enjoy both cars immensley and will never sell them

V6 JOSE · May 6, 2013

Hi Jessie,

If you really want to use the 440, I would recommend front halving the car, so that it will be a safe vehicle after you invest all that work and money in it. Some have modified the Alpine body extensively in order to shoe horn a big V8 into and they seem to run OK, but I personally prefer welding on a complete tubular front suspension onto the body, so you have room for a bigger engine, and it will be easier to make it a safe vehicle. Many guys take this route in order to modify their small vehicle with a large V8. It also makes it easier to use a flip front end.

If you want a V8, you will not be happy with anything else, so by all means, go for the V8. I wouldnÂ´t worry about resale of your modified Alpine, because what is important is that you enjoy it yourself. What will increase resale value, is a well engineered and well fabricated front suspension. With that, many guys will be interested in it.

Jose

jessieherrera said:
Hi,
Thank you guys for the input. One thing is that when the previous owner put in the V6 he installed a MGB rack and pinion so it seems to give me the room for the V8 configuration. I already have the dimensions for the firewall modification though I was going to cut the firewall around the motor and trans. More of a try and fit as I go along. If I had my heart set on a V8 do you think the Ford is a more orthadox swap than the Mopar? I have all the tools I need for most anything I want to do. I also have access to brakes and shears in an autobody class I'm taking. At home I have a plasma cutter and a full size mig and Tig. I also have all the mounts for the Ford. Where I seem to have the most trouble is in finding an adequate rear end. I have a posi 8.8 and a 8". Both will obviously need modification. I realize that the big block will obviously take much more effort, but I'm retired and except for class I have lots of free time. I guess I'm experimenting more than anything else.
Many years ago a friend of mine had a stock Alpine and took me for a ride. That car was really fun to ride in. Going on the wishes of the previous owner I am leaning towards a V8, not a six. Maybe the Mopar is kind of out there, but it was just a thought. Has anyone here done a big block swap and how do you like it? If any of you have a small V8 Ford what are the downfalls and how do you like it? What would you do different?

Cactusmasher · May 6, 2013

What to do Jessie

A few observations regarding your swap. In the end you will have much more money and time involved trying to fit the large V8 into the Alpine. You will have a front heavy ill handling very fast car. The Tigers in factory spec form are already ill handling and front heavy and are very fast little cars. A year or two back, Hot Rod magazine had an article about a 427 Ford powered Alpine. It was a hand built race car with an Alpine shell fitted to the frame of the race car. It was built for straight line acceleration, i.e. drag racing and was not useful as a street car.

If your intention is to have a trick street driver/Sunday cruiser type of car, the big block Mopar (or any other big block) will be a major disappointment. There are so many factors involved I don't know where to begin. Heat generated by the big block engine would be all but unbearable (ask any Tiger owner about the amount of heat generated by the small block Fords).

I am all for modifying cars to suit the desires of the driver and I support whatever decision you make. Your car.....your idea....your money. I have been building and modifying cars since I was 14 years old and am now pushing 70 hard. I've owned more cars than I can count. I have owned 15 Alpines and Tigers and have seen just about every engine modification that can be done to one. When Chrysler corporation bought Rootes they intended to continue making Tigers using their own small V8 and 4 speed transmissions. Chrysler found that there was too many problems to overcome to make their small V8 fit and the costs would far exceed any profit to be made so they abandoned that idea.

My suggestion to you is first make a list of all the pros and cons of such a build, then see which side wins out. Think about all the potential problems and headaches as opposed to all the good stuff, the fun stuff involved.

Second suggestion ( aka a lot easier way to go ) is to go ahead and spend the money to buy a decent Tiger, then make the modifications to it for better handling and more power. There is a litany of information available for these modifications as well as lots of help available on this forum. The amount of money needed to build the Alpine as you are suggesting would buy a nice Tiger with money left over for the modifications. Tigers, even the modified ones will be worth a lot more money in the long run than an Alpine with a big block V8 conversion. This is not to say your conversion can't be done.....with enough determination and money you can build just about any kind of car. I'm just saying that with my experiences and background in building cars, both restorations and modified, I would not even consider a build of this type, even if the car owner was paying me buckets of money to do it. The headaches and problems would be more than I would want to deal with. Just one man's opinion. I wish you luck either way you decide to go.

Bill Blue · May 8, 2013

If you want a car worth a lot of money, sell the Alpine and get a Tiger or a different make of car. Alpines have never been valuable and its looking like they never will.

I have never seen an Alpine with a big block, but over the years there have been a few of them pictured on the internet. No inner fenders, one even had the front end extended about 6 inches. I think they beg the definition of "Fit" and "In".

You are pretty much telling us you can do anything to the Alpine that is needed to put the 440 into it. All I can say is to consider what you want the finished car to be. If it's a "street" machine to burn up the quarter mile, maybe make a tour or two around the local 50's hot rod hamburger stand on Friday night and do a massive burnout as you leave, then go with the big block. If you envision driving it hundreds of miles in a day, put in something else.

Anything else.

Bill

Gary T · May 8, 2013

Another question could be what could I do. The photos are from a friend of mine who loves to drag race, and you get the picture. Thanks

What should I do?

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