Water from exhaust

Ron67Alpine · Oct 20, 2009

Water from exhaust and engine noise

I kinda mentioned this, in another thread, but it's starting to worry me.
When I go quickly to a high rpm, I hear a screeching. I'd, previously, thought it was the pump or belt, but I've fixed those things. It sounds like it's coming from the lower left side of the engine?
I'm also getting, what seems to be, an awful lot of water coming from the exhaust. It's been pretty rainy and humid the past week, but it was a stream that dripped from the exhaust, downhill, past the front of the car. It doesn't stop when the engine is warmed. Oil on the dipstick doesn't look contaminated and radiator isn't loosing fluid, since I replaced the pump. I thought maybe the head was loose, and tried to retorque it. The outside bolts were tight but discovered you can't get to the bolts under the valve cover, w/o removing the valve train. How hard is it to remove, and get back on. I should replace the T o-rings anyway. So am I on the right track? Coolant getting into the cylinders, from a loose head/bad head gasket? If I have to remove the head, what should I look to do, while I've got it apart? Any thoughts?
Thanks
Ron

V6 JOSE · Oct 20, 2009

Hi Ron,

It sounds like it is working OK, since it isnÂ´t losing water, and you say that it has been rainy the last few days. Cool, rainy weather leaves a lot of moisture in the air and part of the combustion process makes water too, so some will always come out the exhaust pipe.

Jose

Nickodell · Oct 20, 2009

Hi, Ron. Every gallon of gas burned produces approximately one gallon of water: CxH2x+2 + 2xO2 → xCO2 + 2xH2O. This begins as steam in the cylinders, and cools progressively as it gets farther down the exhaust system, eventually exiting as a mixture of water vapor and water droplets or spray (which is what causes the contrails behind an airliner at high enough altitude, where the water turns immediately into ice crystals). At ground level you notice the water more in cooler weather, as the exh. pipe is colder and condenses more of the vapor.

As Jose said, if you're sure you're not losing coolant, don't worry about it. However, a screech is never something to ignore. Could be a spun bearing or one running dry of lube. How is the OP?

Ron67Alpine · Oct 20, 2009

Cool, thanks for the replies, Jose and Nick. Perhaps I should have said, I don't think I'm loosing coolant. Since I've just got it to idling, decently, I havent had a lot of observation time. I'll keep an eye on it. It's been a long time since I've had a car from this era, and I didn't think they dripped as much as this is doing. I've had it idling up to 30+ min, so don't think it's the humidity.
The screeching is a worry, I was also thinking of a spun bearing. I've got around 22lbs oil pressure @ around 2K rpm, 40 @ 3K. I've got a new aftermarket OP guage.
Ron

SDuncan · Oct 20, 2009

I know with the Crown Vics we have at work, if they sit idling for awhile, it looks like someone dumped a pail of water under the tailpipes. And then if you take off quickly, the water will literally run out of the tailpipes for the first number of seconds. If your car is idling for 30+ minutes at a time, it might not be unusual. I may be wrong, but I thought white exhaust was a sign of coolant being burned during combustion.

Slainte · Oct 21, 2009

Ron,
I seem to remember a sound similar to what you're describing as my alternator headed south. Worn shaft or bearing. It is an alarming sound, and would generate from the lower port side of the engine. Replaced or rebuilt the alternator, and everything quieted right down. Just a thought.
Ryan

husky drvr · Oct 21, 2009

Also, make sure that the lower alternator(gen) mount is not broken or loose.

RootesRooter · Oct 21, 2009

As suggested in other threads, try removing the fan belt and briefly run the engine. If the screeching disappears, you likely either have a bad alternator. The rear bushings often go out, sometimes even on "remanufactured" units(from experience). If the screeching persists, you should be able to locate the source easier without the buffeting from the fan.

MikeH · Oct 21, 2009

SDuncan said:
I know with the Crown Vics we have at work, if they sit idling for awhile, it looks like someone dumped a pail of water under the tailpipes. And then if you take off quickly, the water will literally run out of the tailpipes for the first number of seconds. If your car is idling for 30+ minutes at a time, it might not be unusual. I may be wrong, but I thought white exhaust was a sign of coolant being burned during combustion.

You see a lot of water from the Crown Vic because of the catalytic converter. Water is a by product of it working.

MikeH · Oct 21, 2009

Ron,

You can pull the spark plugs and look for one that is very clean compares to the others. This may indicate water in a cylinder. Also at startup, if there is coolant leaking into a cylinder, you would hear the starter work harder as it compresses the coolant in the cylinder and see a puff of white smoke (vapor cloud) when the engine starts. I had a Datsun pick up do the same thing. It progressively got worse, until finally I was being followed down the road by a big puffy steam cloud ended up with coolant in the oil.

Ron67Alpine · Oct 21, 2009

Again, thanks for the replies. I'm going to try to reply to your responses, sequentially.
Scott, I've always considered white "smoke" continuing after exhaust has warmed, as an indication of water in the combustion chamber. This is what started my concern about this water drip from exhaust. Maybe if I can ever get it out of the garage, and actually go for a ride, the dripping will calm down.
Ryan, I kinda included eliminating anything associated w/the belt/alt/waterpump, when I mentioned replacing WP/belt. It was also the first thing I thought of when I got it started the first time and heard the noise. The alt is also a new replacement. Everything up there is now quiet as a church mouse.
Don, the mount is solid.
RootesRacer, as mentioned above, I've been hearing this racing idle screech, since I first got the engine running, last spring. As mentioned, I've pretty much gone down the list of standard suspects. Alt/pump/belts are all new and not making any noise. There was quite a bit of time while waiting for parts to arrive, where I did start the engine w/everything disconnedted from the belt and still got the screeching, when engine races.
Now, Mike, that is something I haven't thought about looking for. I have had the plugs out recently, setting valve clearance. I did seem to notice that #1&4 plugs seemed to be more sooty, than 2/3, but didn't particularly notice any really "clean" plugs. I presumed the sootiness was due to valve clearance and/or improperly tuned carb. (I'm working on dialing those in) The starter doesn't seem to be working particularly hard,... unless I leave it in gear.
I mentioned it seemed to be coming from low on the left side of engine, but neglected to mention it seems to also be coming from toward the back of the engine, rather than the front. I'm wondering if the screech could be coming from the clutch/flywheel interface? The other day I forgot to check if the clutch was in neutral, before trying to start it. Right now, the front is up on stands and the rear is on the ground. One would expect trying to start w/gear engaged would have driven the car off the stands and I would have had a real mess. Luckily, it wasn't that disaster, the car stayed on stands and the engine actually tried to spin, although slowly. This seems, to me, to indicate more slop in the clutch/flywheel interface, than is good. Is this a fair assumption?
Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I'd really like to go for a small drive, this year, before the weather really deteriorates, rather than wait for next spring. At least get it out of the garage, w/a reasonable chance of driving it back inside. If I knew, for a fact, I had to tear into the engine, I'd like to get that done overwinter.
Ron

V6 JOSE · Oct 21, 2009

Hi Ron,

On cool moist days, even a warm engine, at idle, will put out visible water vapor, in the form of a white cloud.

Jose

Ron67Alpine · Oct 21, 2009

V6 JOSE said:
Hi Ron,

On cool moist days, even a warm engine, at idle, will put out visible water vapor, in the form of a white cloud.

Jose

Hey Jose
The weather we're having right now, is what I'd call unstable, but then again the winter/fall weather around here is always "unstable". Last week it was cool and wet, this week started cool/cold and will warm to the mid-'70's by today, then it's supposed to go back to cold/wet again, by the weekend. 30-50* swings are normal winter weather, around here, quite often on the same day. I'm going to keep an eye on the coolant level, and maybe give the sump oil a second look, to make sure it's not being contaminated. I'm, now, less worried about the exhaust water, since talking it over w/y'all. I'm still, quite, concerned about the screech, though.
Ron

husky drvr · Oct 21, 2009

Have you checked to make sure the starter is disengaging from the ring gear?

Tom H · Oct 21, 2009

Say what???

The other day I forgot to check if the clutch was in neutral, before trying to start it. Right now, the front is up on stands and the rear is on the ground. One would expect trying to start w/gear engaged would have driven the car off the stands and I would have had a real mess. Luckily, it wasn't that disaster, the car stayed on stands and the engine actually tried to spin, although slowly. This seems, to me, to indicate more slop in the clutch/flywheel interface, than is good. Is this a fair assumption?

So you tried to start the car while the car was in gear and the clutch not depressed and with the front wheels on stands and the rear wheels on the ground and THE ENGINE TURNED solwly but the car did not move???!!! Yes, I'd say you have a serious clutch problem. Unless I misunderstand something here.

Tom

65beam · Oct 21, 2009

water

is the clutch disc in backwards? if so ,the pressure plate is not against the flywheel and the disc could be making the noise as the flywheel spins. crazier things have happened.

Ron67Alpine · Oct 21, 2009

Don, I'm pretty sure the starter is disengaging. I've had no problems w/jamming. It's not a clattering of gears grinding, either.
Since, getting it to idle, relatively well, I've been able to listen better, as to where it's coming from. It's not as loud as it used to be and seems to be coming from mid engine, under the manifolds. It only happens when, it revs from low to high rpms. It could even be metal on metal vibration. I need to do the stethescope thing w/a long handle screwdriver, to try and narrow it down, further.

No, Tom... you didn't misunderstand

I got that urrr, urrr sound from the starter, before I realized how stupid I was. It may not have actually turned the engine. At least I hope not. I put it in neutral and turned over w/no problem. I'm about at the point of taking her down from the jack stands, put the seats in and actually trying a test drive.
BTW, this is a car that hasn't moved under it's own power, in at least 10yrs. Probably more like 20+. It was a guys project car, who died 10yrs ago. Neglected in a barn, until I got her, last Nov.
Thanks for the assist.
Ron

Tom H · Oct 22, 2009

If you got that urr urr sound , you can bet the starter was turning and it was turning the motor. But if it turned the motor and the car didn't move, you almost certainly have a clutch problem. But you'll lean more when you actualy run the car.

To

Ron67Alpine · Oct 22, 2009

Tom H said:
... But you'll lean more when you actualy run the car.

To

Yeah, we'll see. I still have a few things to take care of, but none that I can see, that will stop me from taking her down.

I probably should change the trans oil, before I do. Did I read correctly, in another thread, to use just regular 20-50 motor oil in the trans?

Jim E · Oct 23, 2009

"seems to be coming from mid engine, under the manifolds"

Or just about where number three rod bearing would be.