V6 Electrical Issues

[61Alpine]

I recently had to pull my engine to fix a leak in the internal clutch slave.

Got everything put back together and tried to start. Cranked over like a champ. But would not start. Determine I had no spark. Replaced coil last night. Turned key, fired right up. Let it run for about 1 minute while I adjusted the distributor to even things out. Had to shut it down because I was in a closed garage.

Finished attaching my mufflers etc. Tried to start and it would not fire. I think It is the coil again.

I only disconnected a few wires in the engine removal and I know I have everything back as it was before but I think something is shorting out the coil.

Electronics are not my strong suit. Anyone have any ideas where to look.

Thanks,

 

[Bill Blue]

Rob, I think you are going to have to be more specific about your situation. Are you running points? Pertronics? It seems pretty certain it is an electrical problem, but guys need to know what to trouble shoot. If you were to use a typical points/condenser trouble shooting methodology, it would likely fry an electronic setup.

Bill

 

[MikeH]

If you were to use a typical points/condenser trouble shooting methodology, it would likely fry an electronic setup.

Bill

I think Bill is referring to pulling a plug wire to check for spark. This could blow the amplifier in an electronic ignition.

 

[Bill Blue]

I think Bill is referring to pulling a plug wire to check for spark. This could blow the amplifier in an electronic ignition.

Not knowing his setup makes it very difficult to advise jump wire testing or any kind of methodical voltage tracking. Also, depending on the components, jump wire testing could fry expensive stuff.

Bill

 

[RootesRacer]

Did you by chance forget to reinstall the ballast resistor?

Hooking the coil direct when it needs the ballast can kill the points (or ignition module) or the coil.

 

[61Alpine]

Hi guys,
I am running electronic ignition and I do have a ballast resistor. (I think).

I will be going to the shop Wednesday night if anyone has suggestions on what to test.

Thanks

 

[Bill Blue]

Rob, I would test to make sure you are getting 12v at the ballast resister (6-9v on the other side of the resister) when the ignition switch is in the "start" position. If you are, that would indicate an ignition system problem. If not, its a wiring problem.

In the meantime, I'm out of ideas.

Bill

 

[61Alpine]

Thank for the tip. I'll try that tonight.

 

[MikeH]

Rob, I would test to make sure you are getting 12v at the ballast resister (6-9v on the other side of the resister) when the ignition switch is in the "start" position. If you are, that would indicate an ignition system problem. If not, its a wiring problem.

In the meantime, I'm out of ideas.

Bill

Don't you mean 12v when the the switch is in the start position? The start position should bypass the resister. In the run position the voltage would be reduced.

 

[Bill Blue]

Don't you mean 12v when the the switch is in the start position? The start position should bypass the resister. In the run position the voltage would be reduced.

Yes, if the start position bypasses the resistor. The general idea is to make sure the system is delivering "juice" to the ignition while cranking and that the resister is not burned out.

Bill

 

[Tom H]

With the key in the ON position you should have 12 V at one terminal of the ballast resistor. The other terminal of the ballast resistor should be 6-9 V if the distributor points (or pertronix transistor) is in the closed position - depends on the crank position. Or the voltage at the other terminal of the ballast resistor should be 12 V if the points are open.

In either case there should be 12 V or 6-9 volts at one of the coil terminals when the key is ON. The other coil terminal should be near zero volts when the points are closed and at 12 V when the points are open -regardless of ballast resistor is used or not.

You can use a test lamp (or spare dash lamp) if you don't have a voltmeter. 12 V should light the light fully. 6-9 V will barely light it.

Tom

 

[Bill Blue]

Tom, is it possible for the ignition switch to fail in such a way that voltage will be present while the key is "On", but no voltage will be sent to the coil while cranking? Seems to me that I've ran into ( or heard about) that situation somewhere, sometime.

Bill

 

[Paul A]

Bill - it is possible - and I have had it happen with an original switch in Ol' Blue. Once I replaced the switch I was back to normal. So, yes, it is possible and it has occured at least once.

Send me an email when you get a moment regarding Invasion.

Paul

 

[61Alpine]

Okay here is what I know.

I have the Crane Cams XR3000 Ignition system. Car was running great. I pulled the engine, fixed trans, put engine back in. Wont start, no spark.

Put in New coil fires on first crank and runs strong. Shut down to attach mufflers and take of jack stands. Back to wont start.

Tonight I put my meter on everything. I have power at the + Coil. No spark. Shorted the coil (again I think)

Looked For Ballast Resistor. Oops don't have one. Car ran for 9 years without one.

SO if I install the ballast resistor and a new coil it should be good right.

Can someone give me instructions on installing a Ballast Resistor.

My instructions for the XR3000 show the BR between the coil + and Ignitions Run terminal with a 14 gauge wire bypassing the resistor. Then another wire from coil + to the ignition start terminal.

Suggestions please.

Thanks,

 

[MikeH]

Need to be sure your coil doesn't have an internal resistor.
Here's an article on coils.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ignition_coils.htm

 

[Bill Blue]

Rob, do you have current to the coil while the engine is cranking? Paul says it is possible for the ignition switch to fail in such a manner that there is no current while cranking. I would not be surprised if it was an intermittent failure.

Also, a very common Ford starter solenoid of the V6 era has two small terminals. One is to energize the solenoid, the other is to provide current to the coil while cranking, bypassing the ballast resister. That provides you with a) another failure point and b) an alternate source of current while cranking.

Bill

 

[bluoval]

elect issues

Had a similar problem and the coil (body) was not grounded well. The wires were conected but the body of the coil needs to also be grounded I thought I would cut down on the vibration of the couo and wrap it in rubber at the mounting area and wala no run.. removes the rubber and problem solved .. Earl blu oval

 

[Tom H]

Rob, Couple thoughts:
1) Coils are not fragile devices. I doubt your second coil has gone bad. Maybe even your original coil was not bad, but some intermittent connection or switch is occuring and when you replaced the coil the intermittent issue went good for a while.

2) Read the article Mike H suggested. Although it has a lot about multiple coil systems as used on modern cars. You might also find this article useful:
http://www.familycar.com/Classroom/ignition.htm

3) If your car ran fine without a ballast resistor for 9 years, the coil in the car was probably designed to not need or use one, and if the replacement coil was the same kind, it probably does not need one either.

4) You need to figure out what /where the problem is. See if you have 12 V at the coil while cranking. (while cranking it will likely be lower than 12 V due to the starter load on the battery. Like maybe 9 Volts). If you don't have voltage at the coil while cranking , then the ignition switch is bad. Measure the voltage at the other terminal of the coil while cranking. It should go from 12 V to zero volts about 10-15 times per second as the engine cranks. If it's zero and stays at zero, the coil is bad. If it stays at 12 V (or so) the XR3000 is bad. If it goes between 12 and zero but you have no spark, the coil is bad.

5) Blueoval is correct- the coil must be well grounded.

Tom

 

[61Alpine]

I talked to Crane Cams today.

They had me run some tests. I used a test light on the Coi -l and ground while cranking. Test Light flashes which means the XR3000 is working.

Reading my instructions for the XR says I should not have a Ballast Resistor with the XR3000. Confirmed that with Crane.

Reading more, I am wondering it when I reconnect the distributor wires If I crossed them. Dont thing so because the connector only goes one way.
Saturday, I'll double check everything.

 

[MikeH]

There is also some info on the Crane Cams Website on installing the unit and troubleshooting.

Your issue did help me with one thing though. I'm converting my wife's MGB to V8. One thing I didn't get was the box for the electronic ingnition that is installed in the Buick 215. I thought it was going to be a Pertronix, but it wasn't. I've been all over the web trying to find something that looked like what is installed, with no luck. But when I tried to find info on your system, I found that what I have in the distributor looks like the Crane Cams unit or at least it has the same 3 wire setup and same keyed connector coming from the pickup.