Using a tow dolly

[Alpine 1789]

Jim,
does this mean you're joining the ranks of us retired guys?

Sadly, no. That is still a few years off. I changed jobs in January and work from home, when I am not traveling on business, so work no longer tied me to St. Louis. We've been averaging about a month here and then a month back since December, but that brings its own challenges and maintaining two houses was just too expensive. We only have a one car garage at the moment (indeed, our house here is only 100 sq feet larger than my garage in St. Louis) but we are going to build a new garage just as soon as we can get the necessary approvals and permits.

Tim,
Are you serious about the backwards thing? I need to do this in a few weeks.
I don't see a reason not to just pull the tranny plug and drain the oil when removing the drive shaft?

Paul

Eric was the one who mention going backwards, but it reminded me that I started a discussion on tow dollies a few years ago after watching someone tow without disconnecting his driveshaft at an Invasion. There was some mention of the backwards thing here, but I would like to learn more about it, too. I completely forgot about it this trip, but will likely need it at some point in the future, given that I still have two Alpines to get to NY! http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14102

 

[65beam]

dolly

the problem with towing a wire wheel car backwards could be that the knock offs could loosen . this is why you have to install wire hubs on the correct side of the car. I have receipts for my red harrington from the late 60's showing when the original owner had brake work done and the shop installed the hubs on the wrong side. the wheels worked loose and he had to buy both hubs and wheels.

 

[sd_pace]

when disconnecting the drive shaft at the diff, leave the driveshaft yoke in the tranny and secure the shafts loose end to the car...

 

[Tom H]

Ahah! Thanks SD. Now I remember why I had no problem with tranny oil when I towed my broken Alpine from Denver to Cleveland back in 2005! I just disconnected the drive shaft at the diff yoke and tied it up to the chassis with a coat hanger. Duh!! I KNEW it was a simple step.

Tom

 

[Alpine 1789]

when disconnecting the drive shaft at the diff, leave the driveshaft yoke in the tranny and secure the shafts loose end to the car...

That would have been so much easier - and cleaner - than what I did! But, I am curious about the room for doing that. The car bounces around quite a bit on the dolly. (I now have an exhaust rattle that was not there when I left St. Louis.) I can't quite visualize how the drive shaft would look tied up out of the way. Is there enough room to do this securely?

 

[Acollin]

I just want to be absolutely clear.

If I have a solid wheel sunbeam alpine and would like to use a tow dolly I am not any risk if I back the sunbeam onto to the dolly and stow the soft top.

Is this true?

In an earlier post, some suggested a "club" like device to lock up the steering wheel is also a good idea. What is the rationale? I would think that it would make better sense to allow the front wheels of the car being towed to keep up with the steering of the towing vehical.

Andrew

 

[Tom H]

Jim, It's been a while, but I am 99% certain I just used a coat hanger and had no problem. There is room. I made sure that the wire coat hanger both held the shaft UP and also forward, so it did not slide out. I'm pretty sure I wired it pulled tightly to the chassis so it would not swing and sway. Three years later, after I finished rebuilding the engine and went to re-install the shaft I could not find the original 4 bolt/ nut sets to hold the shaft to the diff yoke flange - yet I knew I had put them in a "safe" place. A year after having the Alpine back on the road I kept hearing some rattling noise coming from the ash tray !

When you're ready to move the other 2 Alpines how about I meet you in St Louis and we can race them back to Long Island. We can stop at my home in Cleveland for a pit stop.

Tom

 

[sd_pace]

remove the diff plate and wrap with tiestrap to the whatever is the best to hold it up securly... (I actually have a spare yoke to slip in if needed)

 

[Alpine 1789]

When you're ready to move the other 2 Alpines how about I meet you in St Louis and we can race them back to Long Island. We can stop at my home in Cleveland for a pit stop.

Tom

That sounds like fun, but it won't be much of a race, since the SIV engine will be in storage in NY by then. As for the S3, I am guessing that is at least a couple of years from being ready. If I have time, I will put the steering column, tranny, and engine in the car before I tow it to the body shop/storage facility. That will make painting the engine bay a little more difficult, but save me the hassles of having to store those too and having steering in the car will certainly make it easier for him to move it around his shop as needed.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Tim,
Are you serious about the backwards thing? I need to do this in a few weeks.
I don't see a reason not to just pull the tranny plug and drain the oil when removing the drive shaft?

Paul

I just want to be absolutely clear.

If I have a solid wheel sunbeam alpine and would like to use a tow dolly I am not any risk if I back the sunbeam onto to the dolly and stow the soft top.

Is this true?

In an earlier post, some suggested a "club" like device to lock up the steering wheel is also a good idea. What is the rationale? I would think that it would make better sense to allow the front wheels of the car being towed to keep up with the steering of the towing vehical.

Andrew

Paul and Andrew: You don't seem to be getting much traction on your questions here. They are probably lost among the way I have hijacked my own thread. You might want to start a separate discussion on towing backwards. I suspect this would be something many would like to have definitive answers on.

 

[Bikesandfires]

I just want to be absolutely clear.

If I have a solid wheel sunbeam alpine and would like to use a tow dolly I am not any risk if I back the sunbeam onto to the dolly and stow the soft top.

Is this true?

In an earlier post, some suggested a "club" like device to lock up the steering wheel is also a good idea. What is the rationale? I would think that it would make better sense to allow the front wheels of the car being towed to keep up with the steering of the towing vehical.

Andrew

Vehicles that have wheels held on with lug nuts CAN be towed with the front wheels on the ground. Wheels held on by knock-offs CAN NOT be towed with the front wheels on the ground.

NO..
NO..
NO.... Unless you want spectators and by-standers to think they are watching a Three Stooges film being made....ALWAYS secure the steering wheel in a straight ahead position.

 

[Tom H]

Regarding towing backwards, I see no value in that approach. I suspect, but have no experience, that without locking the steering down, you will have oscillation of the steering, or the steering would shift to one side or the other and you would be towing the car with the car pulled to one side or the other.

Unless, of course, you put someone in the drivers seat, then they could help maneuver the car like the tail steerer on a hook and ladder truck! It would not be easy, facing backwards, and with the wheel caster working against you to try to pull the wheels one way or the other rather than with you, helping center the steering, as when moving forward.

Oh yeah- Three Stooges, or worse!

Tom

 

[65sunbeam]

Don't tow a wire wheel car backwards-as Bob said the knockoffs will loosen. Solid wheel car is fine to tow backwards-just tie off the steering wheel so the front wheels can't steer from side to side. It has to track straight.
Better yet, get a car trailer! I have towed many miles with a tow dolly but a trailer is so much easier on the car all the way around-and no transmission oil spills in the driveway..... Eric

 

[DanR]

Why can't the Alpine be towed with the wheels....?

What's the rational on why th Alpine can't be towed with the rear wheels on the ground ?

If it is an automatic transmission, I can understand why the drive shaft should be removed (please put the nuts, washers and bolts back in the driveshaft U-joint flange holes) and plugging the tail shaft to stop any leakage of transmission grease/oil.

But, I am at a loss to understand why I am hearing that a manual tranny Alpine can not be done likewise (rear wheels on te ground).

I have towed many a car (manual transmission) all over the US with the rear wheels on the ground without any related trouble.

As a matter of fact I towed the Green1 (T5) to Anderson from Greenwood, SC friday for radiator modifications (round trip over 100 miles). The drive shaft was installed.

 

[Bill Blue]

If I remember correctly from a similar discussion years ago, there is at least one bearing on the mainshaft that is not oiled when the car is towed in neutral.

"And that's all I've got to say about that".

Bill

 

[DanR]

Would that apply.....

Would that apply to all transmissions or just the Alpine?

DanR

 

[Bikesandfires]

Tow dollys were invented at a time when it looked like EVERYTHING was going to be FWD.. Early '80s.

I can't answer with specifics, but 99% of manual transmissions rely on the gears on the main shaft and countershaft splash lubing everything. In neutral, the output shaft is just along for the ride, and none of the gears are spinning. I'd say towing for any extended distance is'nt good for the tranny.

If there was a way to hold the clutch pedal in and leave the trans in high gear so all the gears are spinning it would never damage anything.

Thats my .02 cents...

 

[Alpine 1789]

The car bounces around quite a bit on the dolly. (I now have an exhaust rattle that was not there when I left St. Louis.)

I was thinking about this new rattle last night and remembered something: I had marked the position of the drive shaft on the rear axle before removing it, but then forgot to make sure that I had it in the right spot when I put it back in. I remember reading years ago that putting it back in the same place is important to prevent vibration. I only have a 25% chance of having gotten it right, so how important is this really? What is the likelihood that it is the cause of my exhaust rattle? It would be easy to fix if I was in St. Louis, but I don't have my jack stands and ramps here yet, so it will be a pain to try and re-do it right now.

 

[Tom H]

Jim, I've never marked my shaft / flange. When I had the drive shaft shortened for the OD, they balanced the shaft. I doubt the factory or anyone has ever balanced the shaft and pinion flange together. So I doubt that's your problem. On the other hand I probably have had to readjust the exhaust system about once every year or so, to eliminate rattles. Going over bumps and things, the clamps and rubber mounts shift enough to put some point on the system near the chassis. After last years 7000 mile road trip it's rattling a little again. I gotta get under and push and tug and loosen and tighten. It only takes a shift of 1/4" sometimes.

Tom

 

[Alpine 1789]

Thanks Tom. That is what I assumed, but didn't want to drive around and make things worse if I was wrong. I've had to periodically tweak the exhaust too and shouldn't be surprised that 1000 miles on the dolly was hard on the system. It can wait until I get the ramps/stands here next month.