Update on my S4 project

[Jim E]

Yeah these motors take forever to build pressure on the first start up makes my stomack do flips everytime. I usually pour a quart of oil down the filter base and another over the rocker assembly just before cranking one up. Also understand if the car has an oil cooler you should block it off on first start up. There is no way to pre-oil one by spinning the oil pump but you could plumb an accusunp system to the motor.

Never heard about the vasoline in the pump trick.

 

[Rodewaryer]

And it never hurts (in my experience this only relates to oil changes) to put as much oil in the filter as you can get away with, even if it's only to soak the filter medium before filter install. Anything to help that pressure come up quicker.

Hope to hear an update on how this start up went......now you have me anxious!

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

So we corrected the OP line, started it up, and get 50+ psi, what a relief! It sounds pretty good, but I think we need to fine tune the timing next.

I let it run for 30 seconds or so at a time, and noticed the ignition warning light did not go out. Should a slow idle produce enough voltage to put it out?

Looking on the wiring Diagram, I don't know why it would go out anyway. It seems that one of the wires should be hot when the ehgine is on.

Also I noticed the tach indicating a much higher rpm than I was actually idling. Is this a clue?

Thanks

Sam

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

This is a question for the guys running a weber dgv or dgr. I have flooding when trying to start the car. Even with no choke, or throttle pumping. We took the carb apart and cleaned it while the engine was out. All the diaphrams and seals looked good. I believe the float needle is seating, but I will probably look into the carb again tommorrow. Is there anything in there that might not be obvious, but could be the problem?

Thanks for your advice.

Sam

 

[Alpine Bob]

Sam,
I have just the opposite problem. My DGR, it seems to be starved for fuel after sitting for a day or so, but when I pour a little fuel in the carb, she stars right up. I'm going to find out next week what that's all about.
Bob

 

[RootesRich]

I talked about this with Rich Vose later and he passed on a suggestion that seemed to make sense to me. (Rich, please correct me if I am not quoting you correctly!) He said his father used to pack the oil pump with Vaseline before installing them. That created more suction when the pump first started up and got the system pressurized faster. The Vaseline would mix with the hot oil, which gets drained out pretty quickly anyway. I often thought that one simple modification to this approach would be to fill the pump with assembly lube rather than Vaseline. This would seem to accomplish the same purpose, but mix more readily with the oil.

Yes Jim, that's correct. According to my Dad, it's an old hot rod trick he read about years ago and tried when he rebuilt his engine. I tried it when I built my Holbay engine and I had oil pressure in under 10 seconds and probably more like 5.
Because Vaseline's a petroleum based product it dissolves instantly when it comes in contact with oil and won't cause any harm to your engine.

 

[Tom H]

Sam,

I'm confused about your OP vs Water drain confusion. You say you had accidentally swapped them. Then why did you not get water pouring out when you pulled the OP line and expected oil to come out? Are you test running with no water in the block?

Tom

 

[RootesRich]

Sam,
I have just the opposite problem. My DGR, it seems to be starved for fuel after sitting for a day or so, but when I pour a little fuel in the carb, she stars right up. I'm going to find out next week what that's all about.
Bob

Bob, this is a common problem and one I've yet to figure out. It's also inconsistant as sometimes our cars will have sat a month or two and fire right up, yet back to back days will sometimes require cranking for more than a few seconds.
Let me know if you have any ideas.

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

Sam,

I'm confused about your OP vs Water drain confusion. You say you had accidentally swapped them. Then why did you not get water pouring out when you pulled the OP line and expected oil to come out? Are you test running with no water in the block?

Tom

Yes, we tried to do the initial start up dry so if we found any problems, removing the radiator and associated gear would not be a slow down. I wouldn't run it but about 30 seconds at a time in this state with a healthy cool down between starts. Yes, the PO had done a nice job of fabricating a pipe that would run from the water outlet to the line to the OP gauge, so it fooled us.

 

[Ken Ellis]

Sam,
So, the previous (devious) owner *faked* oil pressure by using water pressure to drive the gauge, as a ploy? PO/OP mod?!

Wow.
Ken

 

[Tom H]

Ken, That would be a pretty poor "fake". The OP gauge would only show about 7 PSI and only after it was fully warmed up!

Wierd!

Tom

 

[Tom H]

Sam, regareding the generator, warning light, and tach.

At slow idle, usually the warning light will NOT go off. At slow idle it does not usually put out enough voltage to charge the battery - so the light stays lit. That's one of the reasons for the switch to Alternators- they put out more volts at idle.

Both sides of the warning lamp should be "hot" relative to ground when the ignition is ON. One side is connected to essentially the Battery voltage. It should have the same voltage as the car's ignition, lights, etc. The other side of the warning lamp is connected to the generator output. At slow idle (or not running) this generator output voltage is less than the battery voltage, so the control box disconnects the generator from the battery. Since one end of the lamp is at about 12 V, and the other end is at some less voltage (or 0 if the gen is not turning at all) there is voltage across the lamp, so it lights. Once the generator is going fast enough to put out more voltage than the battery, then the control box connects the generator to the battery, and the battery, lights, ignition, AND generator output are all at the same voltage. Now both sides of the warning lamp are at full operating / charging voltage (about 14.5 V). with both sides of the lamp at the same 14.5 V, there is no voltage across the lamp, so it does not light up.

I am 99% sure there is no correlation between your tach misreading and the warning lamp being ON.

Tom

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

Hi Tom, I appreciate your explaination. I had come to the same conclusion that it was voltage balance that extinguished the light. I did clean the contacts on the regulator since the car has not run in years. It all looked good inside the cover.

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

More on the Weber DGR carb issue. Started the car again tonight. When starting with a dry carb bowl, it takes about 30 seconds worth of cranking to fill the bowl. I had measured the fuel pressure at about 2.5 lbs. Then car starts and will run for 30-45 seconds at which point it stalls. I pluged the manifold gas drain befroe this test, but when I removed it, it poured fuel.

The jet sizes are marked 125 for the primary and 130 for the secondary(which never should have opened). The air jets are both marked 180. The vacuum operated plunger switch for the start fuel operates when vacuum is applied.

I can't understand where all the gas is coming from?

Please, any help?

Thanks

Sam

 

[Bill Blue]

Sam, does the choke stay closed? It should "pop" open about a third of the way as soon as the engine fires.

Bill

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

Bill, I worked on it again tonight, the choke is strictly manual and doesn't move unless you move it.

On the bright side, I figured out the flooding problem. The weber carb has a needle vale in the bottom of the bowl fuel was letting fuel get by it. We plugged this valve, we got perfect idle with no flooding.

And better yet, the car moved under its own power fir the first time in at least six years.

Tomorrow, I'll take it on a shake down run.

 

[howard]

Now THIS is exciting! COOL!!!

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

Well guys, things are shaping up. Took the Alpine for a few miles drive, it drove pretty good, suspension was good, gauges worked, except the tach was not right. Steering was good.

Here are some questions:

The transmission is pretty loud in 1st.... Normal? nonsynch version

The tach doesn't follow the actual rpms. Any suggestions on how to get this corrected?

This really is exciting to get this car back on the road, and I appreciate all of your help and support


Sam

 

[Tom H]

Sam,

Here's an article on repairing these tachs. I've repaired several.

http://www.classictiger.com/techtips/motach.html

You say the tach doesn't folllow the actual RPMs. Does it move smoothly , but just innaccurate? Or does it jump around? You might try adding another loop of the white wire through the pick up on the rear. That would make the input pulses bigger and get read better. Other than that you may need to replace a couple.

There are a few other articles too.

Tom

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

Its more eratic. It starts off either just lying there or at 3000 rpm, then it will move, but not in corelation to the engine speed. The article referenced makes me think it could be a capacitor, but I think I will lubricate the movement before getting out the soldering iron.

excellent link, by the way