Twin Weber Side Draft Setup

[blownhorse]

Twin Weber side-draft carb setup complete with Warneford aluminum intake. Carbs will need cleaned up. $450 obo.
316-796-0198, blownhorse@msn.com, or PM here.

Thanks, Jim

 

[DanR]

Twin Weber....

Twin Weber side-draft carb setup complete with Warneford aluminum intake. Carbs will need cleaned up. $450 obo.
316-796-0198, blownhorse@msn.com, or PM here.

Thanks, Jim

What's a twin weber side draft carb? I'm not knowedgleable of what they are or why them vs others?

DanR

 

[RootesRacer]

What's a twin weber side draft carb? I'm not knowedgleable of what they are or why them vs others?

DanR

Side draught webers (DCOE) are carbs with two runners per carb (2bbl) and where every circuit in the carb has its own jets ETC per runner.

The twin weber intake will therefor fit two DCOE carbs for a total of 4 individually tuned carbs (effectively a 1bbl carb per cylinder).
Items that can be changed out per throttle runner include the idle mixture srew, main and aux venturis (chokes), main, idle, high speed bleed, emulsion tubes, accel rods, accel jets, cold running jet pair, fuel inlet needle size and other tuning parts and parameters.

DCOEs were avail with 32, 38 40, 42, 45, 48, 50 and 55mm throttle plates.
Today however only the 40, 45 and 48s are available (new).
Alpines usually use 40mm DCOEs and each one flows around 160CFM and is good for about 70hp each carb before going to the next size up.

These types of carbs are generally considered the ultimate in performance and tunability and are found frequently on race cars from the 50s to the 80s prior to fuel injection taking its place.

DCOEs which are properly tuned will usually add 10hp when put onto an otherwise identical alpine engine through reduced restriction.
They also sound wonderful.

 

[alpine_64]

You forgot they look wonderful too!!

 

[mattinoz]

You forgot they look wonderful too!!

But you have to remove the left mudguard brace as well? Isn't that a little risky?

And Michael, is that car a LHD convert? I ask because the wiper washer setup looks odd. They are pointing the wrong way for RHD car

 

[alpine_64]

You forgot they look wonderful too!!

But you have to remove the left mudguard brace as well? Isn't that a little risky?

And Michael, is that car a LHD convert? I ask because the wiper washer setup looks odd. They are pointing the wrong way for RHD car

Matt,

Initially i was worried about the removal of the scuttle brace, but spoke to many people who had done it and they had not suffered ill effects. The car has not had any cracking or twisting, and when i had the setup off recently i installed the bar again just to see if it was all still in the same spot.. and it was, so all good there. Some people make a curved bar and some move it higher onto the inner wheel well.

I am running the gooseneck manifold which lifts the carbs up higher and provides a longer inlet for a litte more torque and alows me to run the original holbay auxilary venturis and velocity stacks whch a straight in manifold wont. I have a NOS straight in DCOE manifold, but decided to stick with mine, if i ran the straight one i might even be able to run the original scuttle brace.

As for the wipers.. yes they are LHD setup.. and the car was originally a californian car imported into melbourne in the early 90's.

 

[DanR]

Dual Webers

Twin Weber side-draft carb setup complete with Warneford aluminum intake. Carbs will need cleaned up. $450 obo.
316-796-0198, blownhorse@msn.com, or PM here.

Thanks, Jim

Jim, I'm very interested in your Webers....

Please provide some pictures of the webers and the manifold

Trying to make sure if I want to spent the $$ or continue rebuilding my original stock set.

Thanks,

DanR

 

[blownhorse]

Sorry Dan, I have been talking to a fellow SAOCA member about the Weber setup and he bought them today. Regards, Jim

 

[DanR]

The Weber setup was just sold today.

Sorry Dan, I have been talking to a fellow SAOCA member about the Weber setup and he bought them today. Regards, Jim

OK! They've been sold.... How about the "fellow SAOCA member that bought them? Would you find out what he intends to do with his "old" setup?

And do you know where I could get a Weber (40's) manifold to fit my SV?

Any pictures of the manifold would be appreciated,
Thanks,

DanR

 

[alpine_64]

Dan,

What sort of carb setup are you looking for? What do you want to do with it?

You are asking what the SAOCA member who bought the DCOE's is doing with their current setup.. ?

Are you just looking for a running setup of any carbs for an alpine? Are you looking to upgrade for perfromance or economy?

There are many options for alpines,

Stock twin Zenith Down drafts
Stock Single Solex compound
Stock twin strombergs

Single Down draft Weber on S3/IV maniolfd (popular conversion.. reliable and econmoy without loss of power)
Sginle DCOE on lynx manifold
Twin DCOE on various side draft manifolds.

Any of the stock setups are easy to get.. switching to a dingle DD weber is easy, you can get it all new or S/H.

Twin DCOE's on a LHD car requires some muching around with the M/C setup.. the gooseneck manifodls are apprently the least problematic intake.. the straight in apparently has issues with steering box interference.


Best to tell us what you are looking for and your desires.. then the board can help you.

 

[DanR]

Twin weber side draft.....

Thanks alpine_64 for your response!

I am restoring my 1967 Series V Alpine. The engine (1725) has been completely rebuilt.

I have even built an Engine Test Stand in order to make sure I have done all that’s fit and proper. I have also, made a Rotisserie for the body restoration which work great.

At present I am waiting on a “new†fuel pump recently purchased. And some new wires for the Distributor.

My Current setup is Twin Strombergs. They are in need of rebuilding. I purchased a Kit from Sunbeam Specialtist for that purpose. I saw different types being utilized and then a member posted a set of the Webers for sell.

Here is where I started looking at what carbs to use. Some really good comments were made that caught my interest, so I was off and running “asking†questions and getting answers!

Your “Information†and “Questions†provoked me to remain “Original†and “Stock†as that is my purpose.

I will attempt to ‘re-build†the Twin Strombergs and hope for the best.

There are many things that I must do before completion of my project.

Speaking of “my project†which should read “Projects†in that, I have three Alpines and a 1963 Volvo Coupe (P1800) to put back on the street.

I wish to thank you and the SAOCAssociation for “being†available to folks like me! We need "all" the help we can get!

DanR

 

[alpine_64]

Dan,

I think you will be fine with the strombergs, just make sure you get them setup correctly and repalce all the gaskets and diaphrams, make sure they have the correct level of dashpot oil.

They have often been discussed on the board, might be worth doing a search and going through some of the rebuild advice and trouble shooting.

 

[RootesRacer]

I think settling on the stroms is probably the best decision you could make.

Unless you have a lot of experience, a lot of money or a very close friend that knows how to tune DCOEs, you will likely be disappointed on your investment.

There are not very many of us that have kept DCOE webers for any length of time on the car.

 

[alpine_64]

Jarrid,

I'm surprised at the somewhat neagative response from you on the DCOE's.. normally you are a proponent of them.

For what it's worth Dan and others interested in DCOE's

The DCOE's can be tricky to setup on the alpine, much will depend on what type of DCOE's you have and how well their progression holes suit your motor. There are somewhat baseline settings on the carbs, but there is much fine tunning to be done and that can be expensive if you dont have access to a selction of jets. correctors and E-tuebs. (though the baseline seems pretty good)

That said if you dont have an experienced weber person at hand they can be very tricky, they will use more fuel than other alpine setups they require some modifications to other parts (especially on LHD cars)

I ran Zeniths, which used to leak fuel and always seemed to drop out of tune, they were also hard to get parts for. Sounded nice and were orignial to the car.

I have driven DD weber setups.. very reliable, never go out of sync (cant) and are fuel efficent given they are progressive.. there are kits to sync the chokes.. but unless you want more grunt.. no need.. also some with hotter motors some have had good luck with the 38DGAS sync carb.

I will say that i struggled to get my DCOE's right when doing it myself.. i took it to an "expert" who did a poor job.. then found a REAL expert, who in an hour had the car runing very sweetly.. and then fine tuned after. The DCOE's stay in tune and sync well and have given no trouble.

For a stock car they are probably to much and not needed, on a tuned motor they are the ultimate carb setup (looks and performance) but the single DGAS/DGV might be more practical route.

On a stock motor the single DD weber or the strombergs are probably all you would ever need, i would prefer the stoms just from an aesthetic point of view.. the DD is ugly and is a single carb.. sports cars need twins at least

 

[RootesRacer]

Jarrid,

I'm surprised at the somewhat neagative response from you on the DCOE's.. normally you are a proponent of them.

For what it's worth Dan and others interested in DCOE's

The DCOE's can be tricky to setup on the alpine, much will depend on what type of DCOE's you have and how well their progression holes suit your motor. There are somewhat baseline settings on the carbs, but there is much fine tunning to be done and that can be expensive if you dont have access to a selction of jets. correctors and E-tuebs. (though the baseline seems pretty good)

That said if you dont have an experienced weber person at hand they can be very tricky, they will use more fuel than other alpine setups they require some modifications to other parts (especially on LHD cars)

I ran Zeniths, which used to leak fuel and always seemed to drop out of tune, they were also hard to get parts for. Sounded nice and were orignial to the car.

I have driven DD weber setups.. very reliable, never go out of sync (cant) and are fuel efficent given they are progressive.. there are kits to sync the chokes.. but unless you want more grunt.. no need.. also some with hotter motors some have had good luck with the 38DGAS sync carb.

I will say that i struggled to get my DCOE's right when doing it myself.. i took it to an "expert" who did a poor job.. then found a REAL expert, who in an hour had the car runing very sweetly.. and then fine tuned after. The DCOE's stay in tune and sync well and have given no trouble.

For a stock car they are probably to much and not needed, on a tuned motor they are the ultimate carb setup (looks and performance) but the single DGAS/DGV might be more practical route.

On a stock motor the single DD weber or the strombergs are probably all you would ever need, i would prefer the stoms just from an aesthetic point of view.. the DD is ugly and is a single carb.. sports cars need twins at least

Michael.

You misinterpreted my message then.
I am a very strong proponent of DCOEs, but they are not for everybody and more than a few have gotten disgusted with them.

Every engine is a bit (sometimes much more than a bit) different and if one tuning setup worked for all then there would be a lot more of us running DCOEs with happy grins.


EDIT:

I re-read my message and see why you would think I was responding negatively.
My response was to Dan the OP, and was an answer to his specific case, not a general answer.

I know that webers are appealing, but unless the user is talking about all the technical reasons they need webers then I am predisposed to tell them that they are better off without.
A rock stock engine could technically benefit from webers but its a lot of cost and trouble for the power gained.

 

[alpine_64]

Jarrid,

No problems.. did seem odd for you to repond that way. As i outlined.. on a stock engine and for someone who isnt searching for that look/performance they can be an expensive and frustrating path to go initially, but once set.. they are great... and on a stock motor i'd bet nicer than the zeniths... though i have never had a stocker!

As for your motors... hehehe.. not that much applicable to us mere mortals.

 

[RootesRacer]

Michael,

I'll post pictures of the new EFI setup soon, its mounted on the DCOE intake (on topic). The plan was to pull the motor and do a tear down with the HC 1496 pistons for a high compression E85 fuelie.

Time and circumstance has not been very kind to me this summer...