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Tiger MG RP mod on Alpine?

SeanP

SeanP

Donation Time
Has anyone ever tried to install the Dales Resto MG rack and pinion mod on a Alpine? Are the mounting holes there on the Alpine crossmember for the tiger RC?

I have some steering wander on my Alpine the lower bearings and joints have all been replaced so i believe the play is either in the steering box or the bushing at the pitman arm. There are aftermarket R/P for the MG so if the mounting points are there this could be doable.

What other tiger parts are needed to convert the alpine over?
 
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C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
As well as the MG rack you will need the MG steering arms,One hole in each arm has to be modified and a spacer will be needed.Then will you still have any ackerman corrections to worry about.Most likely

I would work on correcting what you have.The alpine steering is better than a Tiger's steering anyway.

Did you do the modification for the upper steering linkage?

As to R and Ps I have the Mustang II rack on both cars.To set them up properly takes a good deal of work.
 
SeanP

SeanP

Donation Time
Honestly i'm just looking for options and knowledge. If you guys could explain the strengths of the different systems that would be great.

What I have read here is that the alpine steering is better but that the tigers weakness was the ackerman issues. Dales Restoration kit with the MG RP claims to cure that. I had also read here that if the worm gear on the steering box is shot there is no cure. I hate that there are just not parts I can order and fix the issue. The MG parts seem to be available where the Alpine steering box to my knowledge is not.

The wandering steering is something I need to fix soon. Very dangerous at highway speeds.
 
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B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Wandering can also be caused by improper alignment, worn upper and lower ball joints, worn tie rod ends and the aforementioned upper steering linkage. Have you tested the steering for play? Simply rocking the steering wheel back forth while watching the wheels is a good place to start. If there is too much movement, where does it occur?

As Yogi Berra said, "Its amazing what you can observe by just watching".

Bill
 
SeanP

SeanP

Donation Time
The wheels turn with no visible hesitation when turning the wheel right and left while parked. When at highway speeds there seems to be about a inch or a little more of steering play before correction starts.

The front suspension was completely rebuilt 30,000 miles ago and the steering cross tube (crosses above the transmission) was replaced with the modified one for the V6. What I have observed that seems suspect is a bit of grime on that side of the engine bay below the steering box in an otherwise spotless engine bay (grease or Fluid leak) and the grease boot on the bushing directly below the steering box on I believe the pitman arm is split.
 
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65beam

65beam

Donation Time
alpine

the alpine cross member does not have the mounting points for a tiger rack. the tiger cross member had modifications made to it by removing part of the upper half of the housing for clearance and the addition of brackets for mounting the rack along with extrac bracing to strengthen the cut up cross member. without a tiger cross member you would have to do some major fabrication. there is no reason to replace the alpine steering. most of the play may be in the bushings for the steering cross tube behind the engine. those bushings are easy to replace and are available from SS. they are just pieces of rubber. the shop manual also tells how to adjust the box using the shims.
 
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SeanP

SeanP

Donation Time
Thanks for the info about the tiger rp. Am I mistaken or isn't the cross arm the one that is replaced with the v6 conversion? I have visually inspected that arm and it looks brand new.

65beam said:
most of the play may be in the bushings for the steering cross tube behind the engine. those bushings are easy to replace and are available from SS. they are just pieces of rubber. the shop manual also tells how to adjust the box using the shims.
Click to expand...
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
I DON'T HAVE A pic OF THE part you are referring to.

But if it is the odified one the Jose has in his kit it will have a sharp bend on each end and a threaded rod 1/2 x20 where the joint fastens.

A search of the Forum will provide you with a PIC or two of the part in question.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Sean,

I know you want to fix the wandering problem, but the Alpine handling is one of the finest in the world. A rack and pinion system will improve a lot of older domestic cars, but it will not improve the Alpine handling.

I would look somewhere else for the wandering source. Are the front tires the same as the rears? When I bought my second Alpine, it had two different styles of tires front to back, and the car would wander terribly on rutted asphalt. The front tires had rounded edges to the tread, and the rears were square shouldered. It was scary to drive at freeway speeds.

If the tires are all the same, I would inspect all the steering system components to make sure it isn´t one worn out or defective part. it will bw a whole lot cheaper to fix your stock steering, than to put a R&P in it.

Jose
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
As a start (and maybe the finish), I would take it to a good alignment shop. Be sure to take the alignment specs. They will be able to tell you where the problem lies. Right now, your shooting in the dark.

Bill
 
SeanP

SeanP

Donation Time
Jose and Bill thanks for the advice. Jose I am running 195/15 front and 205/15 rear I will look into that being an issue. I'm pretty sure there is a mechanical problem though with the steering play at speed. Bill that's my plan looking for a good alignment shop as we speak!
 
Cactusmasher

Cactusmasher

Donation Time
Alpine steering modification

Chuck: I had same wandering problem. It was cured with the new upper rod that goes horizontally above the bell housing. The old rubber bushings were worn and wallowed out. The steering upper rod that comes with Jose's kit has new "ball joints" on the ends and that fixed the wandering and tightened up the steering considerably. Most Alpines have perished rubber bushings in that upper steering bar or rod. They're all 50+ years old and should be replaced anyway.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Sean,

Different sizes front to back won´t cause it, as long as the tires are the same make and model. I had two different manufacturers on each end. Apparently, the two tread paterns caused this anomaly.

Jose


SeanP said:
Jose and Bill thanks for the advice. Jose I am running 195/15 front and 205/15 rear I will look into that being an issue. I'm pretty sure there is a mechanical problem though with the steering play at speed. Bill that's my plan looking for a good alignment shop as we speak!
Click to expand...
 
SeanP

SeanP

Donation Time
So does anyone know of an alignment shop in the SF south bay that has worked with the Alpine and might already have the camber shims that may be needed to do the Job?

I was looking at
Custom Alignment in Mountain View and also
On The Road Again Classics in Morgan Hill
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Wandering:eek:

My '67 rebuild was complete new stuff.

I'm currently at about 300-400 miles of the car after restoration.

Still doing some small tweeks.

Had a bit of "wandering" that started40-50 miles back. Took it in for an alignment that was scheduled. Very fortunate that I did because my ShopMan found the left hand tie rod end about to come apart.

Don't mean to scare anyone but, if, you have any wnadering in your steering, be advised to have it checked by an expert.

He said that it probably saved my life beings that I was headed for Columbia April 5th.

DanR
 
greenbeam

greenbeam

Platinum Level Sponsor
Perhaps a call to Rick McLeod at Sunbeam Specialties to see if he's got any intel on good/bad shops. He's probably heard customer stories over the years.
Cheers,
Paul.
 
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