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The Lucas Starter Failed....

Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
At 0600 hrs, Friday March 31, the Alpine failed to proceed to the Lexington SC Invasion. It did not crank, click, growl or anything. I turned on the headlights, nice and bright. I tried to crank it, lights did not dim. I jumpered across the solenoid with a metal tool, starter did not spin, lights did not dim. I tapped the starter with a long prybar, no joy. I took Deb's car to Lexington!
Yesterday, for fun, I disassembled the starter. What I found was a broken spring on the Bendix drive, a strange re-thread on one through bolt, and an unevenly worn commutator. The big old spring on the over-run Bendix was broken in two places, but seemed to be working anyway. The re-threaded through-bolt was holding torque, so I cleaned up the threads and let that ride. The commutator was gummy and out of round. Four bars were lower than the others. I worked the commutator round and smooth with a worn-out 36 grit sanding belt, and went over it with an ohmeter. I think all the solder joints are sound. The brushes l judged as servicable. The bushings, barely servicable. The Starter.......Works!
goofy_car_trouble_by_hidde99-d5g5jk3.png
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
This was just for fun....Should have mentioned that I await delivery of a permanent magnet gear reduction/ Nippondenso blend starter from Sunbeam Specialties.
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
One thing, maybe useful; the through-bolts have 0BA threads. 0.240" across the threads and a pitch of 1.0 mm, thread angle of 47-1/2 degrees. The threads pulled out of the aluminium drive-end housing. That could be heli-coil repaired with 6x1.0 mm (60 dgree) coils, and run a similar die down the bolt. Are there heli-coils for British Association threads?
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
I installed a gear-reduction starter from Sunbeam Specialties, and found two things: 1) the steering arm on the (LHD) steering box strikes the starter motor's positive cable connection stud when wheels are turned full left lock. I am thinking about the fellow with the red racing alpine with roll bar and wide tires who had starter failure,. He drove from New York to the Independence MO invasion.....can't recall his name (Barry, do you remember him?).....BUT his gear reduction starter failed and the insulating bush around his starter positive post was shattered into little pieces. I think this is why! He was push starting his car everywhere, including the gymkhana, and the lunch up in the hills, and bought a pile of used Lucas starters.....would love to follow up with him. Oh, and 2) The connection from the solenoid post to the starter cable was bad. (It was slightly under-torqued years ago and got rusty from the heat of resistance.) This connection is rear-most, and hard to see, worth taking apart and cleaning, add to the list of "Usual Suspects".
 
husky drvr

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
Shannon Boal said:
steering arm on the (LHD) steering box strikes the starter motor's positive cable connection stud
Click to expand...

Shannon,

In the catalog picture, it appears the motor might possibly be clockable on the drive housing. Could that be done to find the needed clearance?

1681854664505.png
Good luck,
 
Scotty

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
It's funny, I've had more issues with the Starter Solenoid than the Starter (Now watch, five minutes after I post this...). Are the Starters notorious for dying on us sooner? I like the idea of a gear reduction starter, just haven't had a real need for it. What are folks thoughts on this who are LHD like my SIV?
 
sunalp

sunalp

Diamond Level Sponsor
There are differences between the gear reduction starters. Some are China based and some are Japan
based. The Wosp starters seem to be the best made for the money, but all of them have the allen head
bolts in the back and can be rotated so that nothing hits. Just installed one on a S4 and the steering
arm at full lock doesn't hit it. It's close but doesn't hit.
 
Last edited:
Tim R

Tim R

Silver Level Sponsor
Shannon,
We once had a steering arm strike a starter terminal, it turned out that the lock stop on the bottom suspension pan had rusted away. When it was fixed the arm stopped short of the starter. It was quite close at full lock but not touching.
WOSP are very good reduction starters and are British made and designed.
What people don't always realise when fitting the Hi-Gear type starters is that the pinion engages on the opposite (unworn) side of the ring gear so it is like fitting a new starter ring as well. It makes a massive difference to the car as the engine is turned over very quickly and powerfully leading to it starting with minimal drama even on the coldest days.
Tim R
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
Scotty said:
It's funny, I've had more issues with the Starter Solenoid than the Starter (Now watch, five minutes after I post this...). Are the Starters notorious for dying on us sooner? I like the idea of a gear reduction starter, just haven't had a real need for it. What are folks thoughts on this who are LHD like my SIV?
Click to expand...
Honestly, that seems to me to be a pretty good starter. 135,000 miles, 56 years, and just needed some minor work. It is a little better than what I saw from GM stuff of that era, not as good as Chrysler...
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
OK, have followed up on starter post, power connection striking steering arm. It can maybe be clocked to fit better but I don't see it. This starter is clocked like all the pictures online of the type. What I did is cut the post 1/4" shorter and retest (still a solid clunk). Then I cut 1/8", (just barely touches. I ground the post flush with the top of the nut holding the cable and wire, and it is fine. With a bungey cord holding the steering wheel against lock, I have about 3/32" clearance. Starter works fine, little "yelp" when motor starts. This would probably have busted the insulator into pieces.
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
I cut the post flush with the top of the nut, and it is OK now
 

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  • ALPINE STEERING LOCKED LEFT.jpg
    ALPINE STEERING LOCKED LEFT.jpg
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  • ALPINE CUT 0.25.jpg
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Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
Looking from the front of the car at the starter, if the starter motor could be rotated within the adapter housing clockwise 20 or 25 degrees, that might work. It depends on how many bolt holes there are. Some documentation with the starter would be a good thing.
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
Tom Johnson provided detailed photos, Bill Blue provided advise and hardware store provided 5/8" steel. The cross pin is 1/4' cold rolled steel, force fit in shaft ("E" drill bit). I used metal lathe for shoulder and taper, oxy-acetylene to hot-bend crank. Now I can adjust the valves...
 
Shannon Boal

Shannon Boal

Platinum Level Sponsor
Well.... I cranked it through a dozen times and adjusted the valves! Healthy motor, lotsa compression. Have not started it this way yet!
 
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