sV or sIII suspension, what one is worth rebuilding.

[the ghoul]

Hi all.
I currently am working on a series III that will be powered by a series V driveline. I started looking into what components I need to rebuild my suspension and realized that there are diffrences between the two gennerations. At a glance it seems that the series III replacement parts are a bit more expensive and seem to be harder to find.
I was wondering since this wont be a true resoration is there any advantages to using the series III suspension vs the series V?
I currently have both full suspensions sitting side by side, I just cant decide what one to rebuild.

 

[DanR]

The Series V has a stronger rear axle.

Does either or both have wire wheels?

 

[George Coleman]

The front end set for 4 and 5 is easier to work on and parts are more avalaible. i would go for the newer stuff!

 

[Tom H]

It seems to me to make more sense to go with the later suspension. More new parts available, probably more used parts available, more advanced design (ball joints at top and bottom) .

Tom

 

[the ghoul]

The Series V has a stronger rear axle.

Does either or both have wire wheels?

Nope sorry bud.
Sounds cut and dry to me then! Thank you all. Full series 5 driveline it is then!

 

[Mike O'D]

I have heard that the early series cars (up to 3) have crisper handling than the later series cars. I have no experience to comment either way. Anyone with experience that could comment?

Thanks.

Mike

 

[Jay Laifman]

Actually the best is to take the S3 springs and put them in the SV front end. It lowers the front to the perfect height. Otherwise, you can fit a full fist between the top of the tire and the wheel well opening. This is what I did and am very happy. Those S3 springs are pretty rare.

 

[alpine_64]

The S3 springs are the lowest of the alpine range.. but Jay.. surprised you say rare.. VB used to, and sure they still, offer them. You can normally buy them on sale once a year really cheap.

As for the design... the later series is easier for parts and the lack of greasing points, so low maintenance... BUT

The early series Kingpin front end is in theory a better setup overall for handling. You have solid bushings instead of rubber bushings so less give.

If you are not racing and have access to a later front end.. that will be easier and cheaper to do... all depends what you want.

In theory the ideal for ride/ease and height would be a SIV/V front end running drop spindles, you get the lower ride height but no changes to spring rates and ride.

 

[65beam]

rebuilding

Michael,
there are solid bushings available for the late suspensions. I have a set in stock. we had them in one of our cars but removed them due to every bump and rough spot in the road being felt in the steering wheel. he also makes upper and lower fulcrum pins for the late suspensions.

 

[alpine_64]

Michael,
there are solid bushings available for the late suspensions. I have a set in stock. we had them in one of our cars but removed them due to every bump and rough spot in the road being felt in the steering wheel. he also makes upper and lower fulcrum pins for the late suspensions.

You might help people out by mentioning who "he" is. As for putting solid bushings into the late setup.. its likely easier to source the earlier parts than bespoke parts.

Also as I said, if its for road.. late setup is fine.. that said.. i dont find i have bad feedback in my SII with the kingpin front end.. so maybe the solid bushes you had made for the later setup are not designed for road use.

 

[the ghoul]

Wow good information.
My goal was quick fun street car for summer dd use on a budget and occasional auto cross. I looked thru sunbeam specialties and classic sunbeam catalogues and if I replace all the wear items on both front ends the series III comes out to $150 more to rebuild vs the series v with full poly bushings.
I do believe sunbeam specilties sells the springs for both

 

[65beam]

suspension

Michael,
his name is doug and he's in Dayton. he's been doing this stuff for 40 years.

 

[Jay Laifman]

The S3 springs are the lowest of the alpine range.. but Jay.. surprised you say rare.. VB used to, and sure they still, offer them.

VB? You are citing to VB for anything? Sorry. There is simply no way I would trust VB to sell anything that is correct for our cars. I've been bitten by them way too often - certainly custom tonneaus and rubber have been a disaster, but even hydraulic parts that are either correct or not correct have been a problem from them.

I'd like to see that someone selling a S3 spring is selling something that is actually different than SIV and SV springs. When I was doing my car 20 years ago, the vendors carried a one size fits all spring.

 

[the ghoul]

sorry, I stand corrected...
sunbeam specialties AKA Roots.com only offers seriesV front spring.
here is a little price comparison spread sheet I set up

The main hesitation in my mind is I cant seem to find a kingpin rebuild kit.
naturally I haven't gotten either apart to inspect what actually needs to be replaced and rebuilt. I simply put together a list of wear items....

 

[the ghoul]

I love this forum, quick search and I found the kingpin kits....
updated spread sheet...

looks dollar for dollar close to the same, so if the series III is as good or better handling than the series V then I would feel a little better with the series III front end under her.

 

[alpine_64]

The S3 springs are the lowest of the alpine range.. but Jay.. surprised you say rare.. VB used to, and sure they still, offer them.

VB? You are citing to VB for anything? Sorry. There is simply no way I would trust VB to sell anything that is correct for our cars. I've been bitten by them way too often - certainly custom tonneaus and rubber have been a disaster, but even hydraulic parts that are either correct or not correct have been a problem from them.

I'd like to see that someone selling a S3 spring is selling something that is actually different than SIV and SV springs. When I was doing my car 20 years ago, the vendors carried a one size fits all spring.

Hey Jay,

I dont normally recommend VB.. and know lots of people who have had issues. But back in the early to mid 2000's they did offer S3 springs that were correct. Lots of guys bought them (when our whole spring research thing happened on the forum back then) I know quite a few people who bought them. I actually bought a set and had them sent to Jim E, he checked them out and all was good and to correct spec.. when i got the postage cost to send them down under it was cheaper to make a set here.. so on ebay they went and i at least got my $ back.

 

[alpine_64]

Michael,
his name is doug and he's in Dayton. he's been doing this stuff for 40 years.

Bob I suspected you were referring to Doug Jennings, but the point is there is a guy asking the questions looking for parts and you have done what you normally do.. given an ambiguous answer that doesn't help the person asking the question or indeed Doug... you always plug Rick and will post his phone number... if Doug has the parts.. maybe mention his name or details.

 

[the ghoul]

Ok gents, so what's it going to be? SIII or sV?
I believe my spreadsheet to be accurate, if there are any other wear items that I have overlooked, please let me know. As it stands now I am leaning sIII as it is appropriate to the car, as well as the better handeling. But please speak up if you have a compelling argument for the series v front end...
I will definetly be using the series v rear end, i will keep the 1600 engine safe from abuse in the garage and do a performance build on the 1725, now to make a decision on transmissions and old style vs new style pressure plate....

 

[the ghoul]

 

[Tom H]

Everything that has been posted here has suggested SV suspension, excpet Michael's statement:

The early series Kingpin front end is in theory a better setup overall for handling. You have solid bushings instead of rubber bushings so less give

.

And notice even he said "theroretically" and because of the solid bushings. Furthermore others have noted that you can get solid bushings, or less mushy bushings for the SV. But note that the solid bushings in a SIII or SV will give a much harder ride. If you have not riden in an Alpine ever or lately, I suggest you find one to test drive before you commit to the harsher ride that comes with solid bushings. Even with the softer bushings of an SV suspension, I think you may be surprised at how jarring it is to drive an Alpine. I've been driving Alpines for 45 years and it still takes getting used to for the first half hour after not driving one for a couple months or so.

Tom