Starting your car

[Acollin]

Hello all
i watched the sunbeam channel video on the roller bearing throw out bearing and was very surprised to learn that I had been starting my car improperly for years.
The video states that one should not depress the clutch pedal when starting the Sunbeam Alpine. I was also surprised that an original owners manual does not include this tip in the “starting procedures” while there is the caution about keeping your foot away from the accelerator pedal when using the choke.
I have been driving manual transmission cars since the 1960s. Have I been doing this incorrectly all along? Should one not depress a clutch pedal while starting any manual transmission car?
Thanks
Andrew

 

[hartmandm]

It depends upon the car. The starter on my Cobra won't engage unless the clutch pedal is depressed. I think it is some sort of safety feature. I can start my Alpine with the clutch depressed or not. I normally start it with the clutch out and the gearbox in neutral.

Mike

 

[ernestovumbles]

i watched the sunbeam channel video on the roller bearing throw out bearing and was very surprised to learn that I had been starting my car improperly for years.

I saw and thought the same thing.

Always thought it was easier on the engine spinning without the extra drivetrain.
I've tried it both ways on my Sunbeam, and for some reason it does indeed crank faster when in neutral and not using the clutch. Not sure why.

 

[hartmandm]

When the clutch is engaged, there is additional friction being introduced. The carbon throw-out bearing is putting pressure against the clutch pressure plate, resulting in friction. You can find threads on this forum where people mention that engaging the clutch will reduce the engine RPMs as compared to idling in neutral. I recall people mentioned that one of the causes of the RPM drop is the thrust-bearings are worn. I think the conclusion is the pressure on the clutch pressure plate is pressure on the flywheel, which in turn is putting pressure on the crankshaft. That can result in crankshaft movement and additional friction.

Not claiming to be any expert here.

Mike

 

[Acollin]

Are we say all cars without that safety feature should probably be started without the clutch pedal depressed?
I am asking about my mgb gt too.
I will give both cars a try when my snow melts a bit.

 

[Tim R]

Engines of different cars have different starting processes but on an Alpine you should NEVER depress the clutch pedal when you start it. If you do you are loading up the thrust washers that sit beside the centre bearing and are actually making the car harder to start. Keep your foot away from the clutch!

Tim R.

 

[alpine_64]

The only reason I could possibly think of depressing the clutch to start the car is if it had some sort of anti-theft device that requires it. Otherwise as others mentioned you are just wearing the thrust washers and throwout bearing.... And adding more friction for the starter to overcome....

I hope you don't sit at the traffic lights with the clutch depressed ...

 

[Tom H]

Terminology! When you step on the clutch pedal does that "engage" or "disengage" the clutch?

Tom

 

[ernestovumbles]

Terminology! When you step on the clutch pedal does that "engage" or "disengage" the clutch?

Stepping on/pushing in the clutch disengages the drivetrain
I've always pushed in the clutch while starting cars (or motorcycles) as a safety measure to not accidentally start in gear and to not have the gearbox gears moving.
Seems to work better in the Alpine starting the car in neutral and not pushing in the clutch.

 

[Scotty]

I park in gear usually, so I put it in neutral, pump the gas once or twice, put my foot on the brake (I know, force of habit) and turn the key. If it's been sitting cold, I pull the choke halfway out. That's about it.

I have held the clutch in at a few stoplights before catching myself doing that too. Now I drop into neutral to coast to any stoplights before I stop.

The one really useful bit I learned for Alpines, thanks to a video, is how to properly double clutch an Alpine. Makes a huge difference in driving.

I know there's a lot of folks here that are experts on this stuff from living through the times where this stuff was common, but we should really have a write-up about proper Alpine driving, tips and information for folks who've either never driven a classic car or are picking up the skills to drive an 'old school' manual transmission. We're not all Freemasons (well...), so lets help share this knowledge with all.

 

[mxp01]

I don't put my foot on the clutch when starting my Alpine. I have owned many modern day manual transmission vehicles and the clutch pedal must be pressed to start the car. This is a safety feature so that someone doesn't engage the starter with car in gear causing it to jump forward or backwards depending on what gear you are in. I keep my manual cars in gear with the parking break on when I park them.

 

[Acollin]

Is this a tough question to answer: which is best ( care for the car) for the Sunbeam Alpines we all drive— clutch pedal up or down to start?
While there seems to be differing methods for the starting process, the strongest argument seems to be no clutch pedal at start up.

Another mystery myth: I almost never use my “parking” brake. When first introduced to me, it was named an “emergency” brake. I expect to use it only when the hydraulic system fails. I assume we have all had shoes stick to drums in long term storage. Shoes not likely to stick if car is regularly used ( I suppose a cable could snap and strand you) and you are parking on an errand. If I were to put a car in storage for a winter, I would never set the emergency brake. Parked on flat — wheels chocked up at most.

what we “believe“ as opposed to what is “true” about are cars too would make for a good thread.

 

[alpine_64]

Is this a tough question to answer: which is best ( care for the car) for the Sunbeam Alpines we all drive— clutch pedal up or down to start?
While there seems to be differing methods for the starting process, the strongest argument seems to be no clutch pedal at start up.

Another mystery myth: I almost never use my “parking” brake. When first introduced to me, it was named an “emergency” brake. I expect to use it only when the hydraulic system fails. I assume we have all had shoes stick to drums in long term storage. Shoes not likely to stick if car is regularly used ( I suppose a cable could snap and strand you) and you are parking on an errand. If I were to put a car in storage for a winter, I would never set the emergency brake. Parked on flat — wheels chocked up at most.

what we “believe“ as opposed to what is “true” about are cars too would make for a good thread.

If you are going to store a car long term you should lock the clutch pedal down to stop the clutch from sticking to the flywheel... And also not engage the parking brake.. but in normal use... It's fine

 

[nsbluenose]

The one really useful bit I learned for Alpines, thanks to a video, is how to properly double clutch an Alpine. Makes a huge difference in driving.

Where can this video bet viewed or can you give a verbal description?
Thanks.

 

[Scotty]

Where can this video bet viewed or can you give a verbal description?
Thanks.

I'll find it for you and post it. It's in a part of another guy's Alpine video (I wish I remembered his name) who demonstrates how to do it while driving and since I've seen it, it's really improved my 'stick handling abilities'. I'd LOVE to see more tips and stuff like that. Some of us were born in the wrong decade and missed it :/.

 

[Acollin]

Well I won’t comment on what is best for our cars— starting with clutch pedal down or up— I can, however, confirm that my starter spins noticeably faster with the clutch pedal up ,foot on the floor. I will assume that this is also better for the car— quicker to start.
I am a convert!! Will start my Sunbeam with clutch pedal up- car in neutral with a foot on the brake pedal.
shocked, amazed and humbled.
be well all
Andrew

 

[alpine_64]

I'll find it for you and post it. It's in a part of another guy's Alpine video (I wish I remembered his name) who demonstrates how to do it while driving and since I've seen it, it's really improved my 'stick handling abilities'. I'd LOVE to see more tips and stuff like that. Some of us were born in the wrong decade and missed it :/.

What decade were you born? Quite a cross section these days

 

[beamdream]

Ok, I'm happy to admit I was born in the 1940s in a rural area; so cut my teeth on manual (stick shift) cars.

I would be first to admit that you never stop learning; nevertheless my driver training started with those who grew up before the auto trans ever existed then graduated through a lengthy stint with the military, where I encountered multiple types of vehicles.

Further on I became involved with motorsport and restoration activities which continue to this day, so I feel confident in adding to the conversation.

The clutch is obviously used to seperate the engine from driving the transmission whilst gear changing, setting the car in motion
or bringing it to a halt; that's what it was designed for. Once the car is at a standstill it's job is done.

Each time you push the pedal down there is a mechanical load on the thrust bearing, wear on the clutch plate, friction drag on the flywheel, and, in the case of Alpine owner's pressure buildup and wear in the hydraulic master and slave cylinder(s).

If over the life span of your car, you can minimise these actions, it's fairly obvious you will be saving a lot of wear and tear on those items.

So, use the park brake or chock the wheels when at rest, use the clutch when you need to change gears.

 

[beamdream]

I don't put my foot on the clutch when starting my Alpine. I have owned many modern day manual transmission vehicles and the clutch pedal must be pressed to start the car. This is a safety feature so that someone doesn't engage the starter with car in gear causing it to jump forward or backwards depending on what gear you are in. I keep my manual cars in gear with the parking break on when I

Is this a tough question to answer: which is best ( care for the car) for the Sunbeam Alpines we all drive— clutch pedal up or down to start?
While there seems to be differing methods for the starting process, the strongest argument seems to be no clutch pedal at start up.

Another mystery myth: I almost never use my “parking” brake. When first introduced to me, it was named an “emergency” brake. I expect to use it only when the hydraulic system fails. I assume we have all had shoes stick to drums in long term storage. Shoes not likely to stick if car is regularly used ( I suppose a cable could snap and strand you) and you are parking on an errand. If I were to put a car in storage for a winter, I would never set the emergency brake. Parked on flat — wheels chocked up at most.

what we “believe“ as opposed to what is “true” about are cars too would make for a good thread.

If you're not regularly using your park brake, how do you know it's working ?

I would support the notion that the long term storage is best served by wheel chocks, with park brake off; but.. I like to know that it's not just an emergency brake.

 

[Acollin]

Like all the systems on my car, each is regularly checked, although some are seldom used.