spit and camel

[skywords]

fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6PnKUEFX8g

 

[John W]

That is cool. Sopwith Camel. A wooden propeller, sounds like it's cutting out and backfiring, hard to drive, and if that's not enough, how about 12 pints of oil an hour all over you and everything else. One seater. That makes sense. What a contrast in airplanes.

 

[Nickodell]

Great video. Thanks.

You know why WWI pilots never suffered from constipation?

 

[Jim E]

Read somewhere the sopwith was pretty hard to learn to fly and killed 50% of those who tried.

 

[Nickodell]

Not quite that bad, but it was a temperamental beast to say the least. The quirky gyroscopic effect was a double-edged weapon. It could, and did, kill even good pilots who forgot the lessons drummed into them in training for the Camel; and once was usually enough. What generally killed them was making sudden control movements close to the ground. If you were undershooting and wanted to do a go-around, gunning the engine and pulling back on the stick, which was OK in, say, an SE5a, would immediately roll the aircraft and auger you in. Likewise, giving too much aileron movement to change direction (e.g. to correct drift) would, depending on which way you banked, either drop or raise the nose, either diving straight in or stalling.

On the other hand, those who mastered it were virtually unbeatable in a dogfight if they used the gyroscopic effect. A Camel properly handled, in a combination of banking and fore-or-aft stick movement, with the addition of the gyro effect would out-turn anything else in the air. An expert in a Camel, with a Fokker or Albatros on his tail, could loop around and be on the Hun's tail before he could say "Ach, Gott!" The Japs had the same advantage at the start of WWII with the Mitsubishi A6M Zero.

No matter how many times they were told not to try to dogfight with a Zero, in the end many allied aces succombed to the urge and paid for it with their lives. Even the great Tommy MacGuire, top ace with 38 victories, including 21 Zeros, bought it. Leading a patrol of four P-38s, including Mayor Rittmayer (14 victories) he saw, 2,000 ft below, a Zero that had been strafing a US PT boat. The four Lightnings dived. The Zero pilot patiently waited until they were within range, did a tight left turn onto Rittmayer's tail, and set one of his engines on fire. Macguire came to his aid, the Zero did a tight right turn and shot him down in flames. He then looped completely over Rittmayer's plane and completed its destruction. Out of ammo, he then kept turning inside the other two Lightnings until they few away, thankful to still be in one piece.

One of the RAF's top aces, Aussie Bay Adams almost went the same way. Chasing a Zero he was astounded to see it complete a perfect loop of less than 200 yards' radius and appear on his Spitfire's tail. Bay flicked his Spit on its back and dived from 23,000 feet to sea level, lucky not to have joined the seven Spitfires shot down by Zeros that day.

 

[jumpinjan]

That video clip is old, its been out there for about 4-5 years now. Gene Demarco is flying the Camel, I met him at Rhinebeck many years ago.
This clip was filmed in Omaka, New Zealand and Gene's there flying (Lord of the Rings, film maker) Peter Jackson's WWI replicas (Jackson is a HUGE WWI aviation enthusiast).
Here's a link that you guys need to see about building Jackson's vintage WWI aeroplanes...They are actually making the old rotary & 6-cylinder inline aeroplane engines (about $100k+ each engine) right out of 4130 steel!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/anzac-day/news/article.cfm?c_id=773&objectid=10568765&pnum=1

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/
Jan

 

[Eleven]

Question: During the flight sequences, the Gnome engine sounded like it was being held to lower RPM's by using the ignition set up the pilot desribed, yet the narrative said that the Camel was flat out. Did that engine have that off and on sound? Also, a rotating cylinder bank was not unique then, did not other radials also have the gyro advantage in one direction? Finally, what is the range of the Gnome with the total loss oil system?

 

[jumpinjan]

All the "rotaries" had the ignition "blip" switch, and that was the primary throttle control. LeRhones had the ignition switch and a carb control and are the most throttleable.
That 160hp Gnome in the Camel might had to be throttled (in flight) in that video clip. Did you notice the "puffs" of smoke? That puff was the engine running back at full bore again. I don't think it was wide open all the time, maybe the pilot did it on purpose for some reason.
There is ALWAYS the procession due to the propeller, which is much like a big flywheel too. No, the radials coming in later years shouldn't behave with as much procession as the rotary.
I don't know the range of the Camel, its all about the fuel & oil capacity they carried.
Jan

 

[Eleven]

I wondered if the pilot was in fact not wide open but wasn't sure. The first thought I has was that if the engine wide open modulated itself to prevent overreving by cutting in and out, this would be very aggravating if you were trying to outrun an enemy!! Sort of like pushing your foot through the floorboards. Also, I always find it stunning to see visually the advances in aero. Those airplanes were only about 20 years apart or less in design.

 

[Jim E]

Yeah quite an advance then too go forward and compare the spitfire to the SR71 Blackbird.

 

[jumpinjan]

The 160 Gnome IS wide open, it has no butterfly valve. It does have a fuel control valve, a firing selector switch (each cylinder fires on the 8th cycle, 12 cycle...he mentions it) and the blip ignition switch. It didn't have an oil pressure guage, but instead had a primitive oil "pulsator" glass bowl that squirted oil inside the glass bowl everytime oil was pulsed into the crankpin. If he sees oil squirting, then its normally pumping oil.
Yeah, 20 years was a huge leap in technology, isn't it.
Jan

 

[Bill Blue]

Fires on the 8th cycle, does that mean that a full charge of gasoline is pumped through the engine and never burned? Are the other four cycles simple pumping events to cool the engine? Combined with ignition speed control, sounds like real low efficiency. Perhaps it has an 8 cycle cam, holding the exhaust valve open for two turns? The more I think about it, the complex this "primitive" engine becomes.

Bill

 

[Eleven]

Talk about tough guys. Wind beating you, engine deafing you, smoke, oil all over (Had a TR Spitfire that liked to do that), head on a swivel nerves tension, sitting under a gas tank, no parachute. WOW (but you had the hottest kite in the sky.)

 

[Nickodell]

Also, a rotating cylinder bank was not unique then, did not other radials also have the gyro advantage in one direction? Finally, what is the range of the Gnome with the total loss oil system?

I think you meant "other rotaries." Radial engines are fixed to the fuselage, with the crankshaft rotating, while rotaries are the opposite; the whole engine rotates about a fixed crank. Advantages: very good cooling; self-flywheel effect. Disadvantages: virtually impossible to throttle in the normal way; ditto normal dry-sump lubrication (they used a total-loss oil system); gyroscopic effect; and others).

True, other rotary-engined fighters suffered from gyroscopic effect, but none as pronounced as the Camel. The reason was that it was a relatively short aircraft, and the major weight (engine, pilot, guns, ammo, fuel, propeller) were contained in the first seven feet, giving the machine a very low polar moment of inertia (resistance to yawing or pitching). Another consequence was that a power-on stall would almost invariably result in a spin, and then, as today, the number one cause of fatal light-plane crashes is a stall/spin at low altitude.

The camel had a range of about 300 miles. Interestingly, aircraft range is always given in "cruise" and "top speed." The rotaries were exceptions - it was the same: They were always at top speed except when landing.

The name Camel derived from the hump covering the gun breeches and ammo belts:

The two knobs are the charging handles for the twin Vickers mahine guns.

Some facts (from various sources, including my library):

The Camel was one of the first to use air-to-air and air-to-ground rockets (in 1917!!), and the highest-scoring aircraft of any combatant nation. Many will dispute this, citing the Albatros and Fokker DVII, and the official figure for the Camel was less than 2,000; however, further research after the war raised this to narly 3,000.

The highest-scoring individual aircraft was that of Maj. Bill Barker (Ser. # B6313), in which he scored 46 victories (in just 12 months, 10/17 to 10/18). After the war it was scrapped. Barker managed to take the clock as a souvenir, but the government, in its gratitude, made him give it back.

Because of its eagerness to turn to the right, and reluctance to go to the left, it could do a right turn in 1/4 the time as to the left, and many pilots if, for example, wishing to change course 90 deg. left, preferred to do a 270 degree to the right.

I was also puzzled at the stuttering engine sound on the video. The guy in the Spit was flying uncomfortably close to stall speed, so you would have thought that the Camel would have been flown in the conventional manner - flat out. Pilots almost never used any other power setting in cruise.

 

[Eleven]

Interesting, I thought radials could be build both ways, just learned something. You wonder why the rotary was used for this application, the spinning unit has great weight so there is a built in technology dead end. Can only spin it so fast and that's that. Then of course, I forget that this was the dawn of the internal combustion engine, etc. I take it this airplane replaced the Se5. That must have been like going from an MG to a Lotus Elan!

 

[Bill Blue]

The lure of the rotary was the lack of reciprocating parts. The pistons only "appear" to move up and down the cylinders. Anyway, the lack of a rotating crankshaft means there are no rod or main bearing issues.

Bill

 

[jumpinjan]

...You wonder why the rotary was used for this application, the spinning unit has great weight so there is a built in technology dead end.

Yes, the internal combustion engine was still relatively new, and in-line engines with its water cooling, radiator and so on, all added to the weight. The rotary at that time had the highest HP to weight ratio, it was adequately cooled, was its own flywheel, and didn't have all the reciprocating component balance problems that the inline engine had. But as Nick pointed out, it had to have loss lubrication. The crankpin is lubed under pressure and since the air & fuel is mixed in the crankcase (the crankshaft was hollowed out for air & fuel entry), the oil is burned with the air/fuel mixture. Now at that time, castor oil was the best lubricant and wouldn't burn at very high temps, so that's what was strictly used.
Jan

 

[Nickodell]

I take it this airplane replaced the Se5. That must have been like going from an MG to a Lotus Elan!

No no noooooooooo!! The SE5a remained in service until the end of the war, and beyond, while the Camel virtually disappeared from the RAF on Nov. 11 1918 (although its successor, the Snipe, remained in front-line service until 1927). Many famous Royal Flying Corps (it became the RAF on April 1, 1918, which we incorrigibles always thought was a hilarious date to start) aces flew the SE, which, with its inline engine, was a much more forgiving airplane. Top speeds were about the same.

A few of the SE5/5a RFC/RAF aces:

James McCudden - 57 (4th highest)
James McElroy – 43
Albert Ball – 28

Curiously, the RAF's top ace, Billy Bishop, flew the outdated Nieuport right to the end, and came out with 72 confirmed victories (and to hell with Richthofen and all the BS written about him. A lot of his supposed victories were scored by other, unknown, members of his flying circus but for propaganda purposes credited to him. He always flew with the protection of a large group of planes [the three times he left their protection he was shot down], most of his victories were against lumbering and almost defenceless two-seat observation planes and almost all on the German side of the lines. And he even claimed to have shot down planes when none were lost by the RFC, or when the supposed victims landed their aircraft, damaged. [See They Fought for the Sky, written by one of his supposed dead pilots]. So there.)

Some interesting videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x70t5XuUxOg&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CrGyrnWpO8&feature=channel_page

 

[skywords]

My good friend Pat Tomlinson built this Pup with a Le Rhone back in the 60's. It is now owned by friends in St Louis. He built it at the Porterfield airport in California where he had a crop dusting business. Steve McQueen was his pal there. He moved here to Marana where I enjoyed the sound of brass shells raining down on the hanger roof from his machine gun. The big wood plug that he had the nose cowling spun around was his coffee table at his house. I had the pleasure of propping it a couple of times. There was no mistaking the hanger he kept it in for the Castor oil oozing out from under the doors.

http://www.peckaeroplanerestoration.com/Sopwith/SP.htm

 

[Nickodell]

Thanks, Rick; fabulous pictures. You have certainly met with some amazing people!