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Simple front brake improvement for Alpine V?

C

crosseyedswede

Donation Time
Please forgive if this has been covered someplace else but I thought I after digging through pages of searches I just thought I would ask. Are there any simple (or less-painful) front brake conversions for an Alpine V that:
1. Stop on a dime (or thereabouts)
2. Simple (something you'd let a mechanic install without you)
3. Purchasable!

I live in New York City and bought a 67 Alpine a few years ago. Given that people here love throwing themselves into traffic I need to be able to STOP. The brakes on the car work about as well as they can for stock (non-girling) but that still leaves some harrowing near collisions.

I've seen a bunch of show cars with modified braking systems and read amazing buildouts on this forum, but I don't have a good garage space. I can't fabricate my own parts, nor leave the car disassembled (I share space in the back of a motorcycle shop). I plan on taking it to a recommended mechanic and letting them deal with the install because I just don't have the space. I've read a lot of close-to-perfect Wilwood setups, but they all seem to need tiger-to-alpine adaptors and them it falls apart.

Any suggestions? Thanks!!
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Do you have 13" wheels? The stock system with good pads and shoes. Go through everything. Dual master(Datsun F10,Subaru,Colt or Courier) Replace the Steel lines and flexlines (I prefer braided stainless for better pedal feel). Brake booster for front and larger earlier rear wheel cylinders. Other wise, Dale's kits or Wilwood or DIY upgrades like many on this site have done. Good tires are essential to braking also.
 
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Toyanvil

Toyanvil

Gold Level Sponsor
I would start with braided stainless lines (all three) and replace the brake fluid every year. If you have not changed the fluid in the last year, I would do that first, it will make a difference.
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
I've got the Mustang II/Capri calipers, SS hoses, a stock brake booster and quality Datsun Z brake pads, but the car is not yet on the road.

I'll be sending a set of rotors off to get cryo treatment. Anybody have a recommendation for where I can get the rotors drilled for vent holes? Or maybe I should try my hand at doing it myself.

Edit: Ok, never mind. Cross-drilling can lead to cracks.
 
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V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Paul,

To avoid the possibility of the rotor cracking after drilling, just have the holes chamfered to break the edge. make sure they are chamfered on both sides.


pcmenten said:
I've got the Mustang II/Capri calipers, SS hoses, a stock brake booster and quality Datsun Z brake pads, but the car is not yet on the road.

I'll be sending a set of rotors off to get cryo treatment. Anybody have a recommendation for where I can get the rotors drilled for vent holes? Or maybe I should try my hand at doing it myself.

Edit: Ok, never mind. Cross-drilling can lead to cracks.
Click to expand...
 
C

crosseyedswede

Donation Time
Thanks everyone for the great suggestions- thanks specifically to Jim, I had never heard of Dale's kits. Think I'll go in 2 stages, replace the brake lines and master cylinder and see how that feels, If necessary move towards the brake replacement.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
The hard truth: There are no simple brake improvements for the Alpine. Is your system is in good shape? If it is, there are two ways to improve your stopping performance.

1. If you can lock up the brakes, consider changing tires/wheels to increase tire grip. That will decrease stopping distance until the brakes become the limiting factor.

2.If you cannot lock up the brakes, consider a more powerful brake package. That will decrease stopping distance, governed by the interaction of braking effort and tire grip.

Bill
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
crosseyedswede said:
Thanks everyone for the great suggestions- thanks specifically to Jim, I had never heard of Dale's kits. Think I'll go in 2 stages, replace the brake lines and master cylinder and see how that feels, If necessary move towards the brake replacement.
Click to expand...

Dale's and wilwoods kits with the larger rotors and multi piston callipers are good but require larger wheels.dale also offered a front upgrade at one point with rotors that fitted stock wheels but gave better performance and a vented rotor.

Another option is to get better front pads, softer material, they will create more brake dust to clean but.. increase stopping power. Same goes for drum linings. EBC in the UK offers better pads I know UK tiger owners have been happy with them.
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
I know the original poster said front brakes. About 80% of braking is your front brakes. For best overall braking you want the rear shoes on drum brakes adjusted properly. If rear disc calipers that are also parking brakes, the parking brake cables should also be adjusted properly. You will have less pedal travel and better overall braking.
 
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260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
I like the Hawk HPS pads for Datsun Z in front. You can send your rear shoes to Porterfield to be relined. Master cylinder size is important also. If too big you will have a hard pedal and need more leg pressure. If too small you will have more travel but need less leg pressure. Usually with a booster you will have one size up vs no booster. For instance say 3/4" is just right for no booster and 7/8" with booster(MGB sizes). Sunbeam would be similar. If you could find a 11/16" master for non boosted and 13/16" for boosted. 3/4" is more common so is what most use. The dual master, I prefer for safety as I have had two different vehicles with single masters fail suddenly. All this to fit the 13" wheels and get the best brakes with stock setup.
 
C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
I have the Mutt II brakes and rotors on both cars. Some improvement.
Big thing was having a real good rebuilder for the brake booster..took 3 times till both of us were happy. That was the big improvement. Stopping is just great
 
Jay Laifman

Jay Laifman

Donation Time
I'm going to repeat the comments about first making sure your system is in order. Old brake fluid, overly flexible rubber lines, poorly adjusted rear shoes, and worn out pads can each definitely reduce braking.

Second, a booster does not really make your system brake better. It just reduces how much pressure you have to push with your leg to get the same result. But the same result is still possible. That said, the Alpine had two master cylinders. One that went with the booster, one that went on an earlier car without a booster. If you don't want to spend the money or can't get your booster fixed, consider a smaller bore master.

Third, without a well working booster, the brake effort is definitely more - and definitely more than modern cars. If you haven't been driving a car with brakes that need more pressure, in an emergency, you won't be used to giving it the pressure it needs. So be mindful of the need to get used to it and the limitations.

Finally, the best thing to do is to always always always give yourself a bigger cushion. No matter what, the modern cars will stop shorter - not only do they have anti-lock, bigger brakes, etc., they also have much more rubber on the road to take advantage of it.
 
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