S IV ignition questions...

[SIVAllan]

Hello,

My S IV is not starting, so I am doing basic checks of points, spark, fuel delivery. The engine spins freely but does not crank.

I changed the solenoid and voltage regulator. The solenoid was bad for sure, the regulator a maybe.

I noticed two things not connected, and thought to ask if anyone could comment?

One...on the left engine bay near the voltage regulator there is an ancient gizmo that appears to be a condensor. Looks like the one inside the distributor cap, but is larger, and has a wire that goes to nowhere...

Does that wire need to go somewhere in particular?

It has no end clamp, and is hanging loose.

Two...the distributor has a quite small hose that runs over to the front Zenith carb. I noticed that it is neatly cut in half, right where it goes beneath some stuff at the thermometer cover.

Although a S IV, the car has a S V engine, and S II downdraft Zeniths.

Maybe I can tape the ends together. It's too small for an internal joiner and clamps I think.

Not sure what this does either! Maybe it's important, and if you have any comment I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

Allan
S IV Atlanta

 

[husky drvr]

Hello,

My S IV is not starting, so I am doing basic checks of points, spark, fuel delivery. The engine spins freely but does not crank.

I changed the solenoid and voltage regulator. The solenoid was bad for sure, the regulator a maybe.

I noticed two things not connected, and thought to ask if anyone could comment?

One...on the left engine bay near the voltage regulator there is an ancient gizmo that appears to be a condenser. Looks like the one inside the distributor cap, but is larger, and has a wire that goes to nowhere...

Does that wire need to go somewhere in particular?

It has no end clamp, and is hanging loose.

Two...the distributor has a quite small hose that runs over to the front Zenith carb. I noticed that it is neatly cut in half, right where it goes beneath some stuff at the thermometer cover.

Although a S IV, the car has a S V engine, and S II downdraft Zeniths.

Maybe I can tape the ends together. It's too small for an internal joiner and clamps I think.

Not sure what this does either! Maybe it's important, and if you have any comment I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

Allan
S IV Atlanta

Cheers Allan,


gizmo that appears to be a condenser


That would be for electrical noise suppression. Probably not needed and should start and run without it.


the distributor has a quite small hose that runs over to the front Zenith


That hose is for the vacuum advance on the distributor. If it is cut, just go to your auto parts store and ask for that size vacuum hose. For driving it makes a difference for economy. If all you want to do is start the engine, it is not critical, but you should plug the port at the carb ( I would suggest a golf tee in the hose part going to the port ).


HTH,

 

[mikephillips]

Try swapping condensors in the distributor, they can fail unexpectedly and cause the engine not to fire. Also, check to ensure that the insulated washers are on the spring arm of the points and the 2 wires on the correct side. If either if these is missing or wrong then the juice from the coil will go to ground rather than throught the plugs.

 

[SIVAllan]

S IV ignition

Thanks.

I changed out the condensor. The little screw jumped into the distributor to prove Murphy's Law is in effect in Georgia, but I got it out (whew).

I noticed that the cloth wire running over to the coil I think appears to be kaput. A photo is attached.

Is this a standard wire available anywhere maybe...?

 

[Bill Blue]

Allan, do you have reason to think the wire is bad? Please let us know the results your testing. With a few clues, we usually do pretty well diagnosing no starts. Changing parts for no apparent reason usually leads to nowhere.

Bill

 

[SIVAllan]

S IV Ignition

Hi Bill,

No, no reason to suspect it being bad, I'm just trying to eliminate anything obvious. It has some of the stuffing coming out, but I believe I've seen that before to no adverse effect. It just *looks* a mess...

I wonder if I have the replacement solenoid wired incorrectly...The old one went bad (tested it with a 12 volt tester) and the new one has different connections...three poles and two tabs for wire connections.

The new one has a remote start button; the old one did not. Now the engine won't turn. Ignition is dead.

The S IV wiring diagram shows one to the battery; one to ground; one to the starter; and the wire to the ignition.

I don't see a ground wire; the switch must ground against the engine bay.

I have a stripped wire to the ignition connected to the small pole; the other (brown) wire shares a pole with the starter.

I think that one needs to switch to the other side but am trying to find a schematic.

Allan

Allan

 

[Chuck Ingram]

Thanks.

I changed out the condensor. The little screw jumped into the distributor to prove Murphy's Law is in effect in Georgia, but I got it out (whew).

I noticed that the cloth wire running over to the coil I think appears to be kaput. A photo is attached.

Is this a standard wire available anywhere maybe...?

probably the original wire.This could be the cause as it may be grounding out

 

[Bill Blue]

Allan, do you know about the wiring diagrams on the site? Go to the Home Page, click on Techincal, then Tech Tips, then Wiring Diagrams.

Looking at the Series III diagram (its the largest and about the only one I can see), the brown wire goes to the battery side of the solenoid. Can't tell for sure, but I suspect this wire feeds the ignition switch. If so, that could be your problem. While you are moving wires, touch the battery cable to the starter cable. The starter should engage as this bypasses ALL switches.

Good Luck

Bill

 

[SIVAllan]

S IV ignition questions

Allan, do you know about the wiring diagrams on the site? Go to the Home Page, click on Techincal, then Tech Tips, then Wiring Diagrams.

Looking at the Series III diagram (its the largest and about the only one I can see), the brown wire goes to the battery side of the solenoid. Can't tell for sure, but I suspect this wire feeds the ignition switch. If so, that could be your problem. While you are moving wires, touch the battery cable to the starter cable. The starter should engage as this bypasses ALL switches.

Good Luck

Bill

Bill,

I attached the relevant parts of the SIII and S V wiring schematics from this site.

Not sure how to tell which side of the solenoid is which, as there are no markings on it.

However I think I have it installed "backwards" as the starter button is on the fender side where there is little room and the button is more difficult to access.

If I turn it around, the starter button will be on the engine side, with close proximity to the clutch master cylinder, but maybe more accessible.

I will have to wait now on the morning as my shade tree has retired for the evening.

But to get this right: The battery connecting wire and the starter wire go on opposite sides: how to tell which side?

Maybe it doesn't matter...?

The striped wire is well illustrated on the S V schematic. I think it goes on the top pole of the solenoid, running to there from the ignition switch.

If I turn around the solenoid, that would become the bottom pole...

The brown wire is left to properly position. It completes the circuit to the ignition switch.

One side of the solenoid has two tabs and I will guess that it attaches to either of the two tabs, or directly to that pole.

Allan

 

[mschoonmaker]

Sunbeam specialties sells it part number A157, I think its less than 20 bucks

 

[Bill Blue]

Bill,

I attached the relevant parts of the SIII and S V wiring schematics from this site.

Not sure how to tell which side of the solenoid is which, as there are no markings on it.

However I think I have it installed "backwards" as the starter button is on the fender side where there is little room and the button is more difficult to access.

If I turn it around, the starter button will be on the engine side, with close proximity to the clutch master cylinder, but maybe more accessible.

I will have to wait now on the morning as my shade tree has retired for the evening.

But to get this right: The battery connecting wire and the starter wire go on opposite sides: how to tell which side?

Maybe it doesn't matter...?

The striped wire is well illustrated on the S V schematic. I think it goes on the top pole of the solenoid, running to there from the ignition switch.

If I turn around the solenoid, that would become the bottom pole...

The brown wire is left to properly position. It completes the circuit to the ignition switch.

One side of the solenoid has two tabs and I will guess that it attaches to either of the two tabs, or directly to that pole.

Allan

Allan, I am not near the car with the stock solenoid, so I may be way off base. If so, someone step in. But here goes.

Functionally, it does not make any difference which pole the battery or starter cables go on. However, as I interpret your post, the two tabs are connected electrically to one of the large posts. If so, that one should be used for the battery cable and the brown wire(s) attached to the tabs. The stripped wire then goes to the small terminal.

The way this is supposed to work: Current is taken from the battery cable to the ignition switch by the brown wire. When the ignition switch is turned to the START position, current is sent to the small terminal. That energizes the solenoid which slams a copper washer into the backside of the battery and starter terminals, sending current to the starter.

Bill

 

[Wombat]

Allan

Try measuring the voltage at the live side of the coil (opposite the connection to the distributor). Check this when the ignition is on and when the engine is being cranked. I have known faulty switches (not on Sunbeams) to fail to supply power to the coil while the engine is being cranked.

Just a thought.

 

[mikephillips]

And, just for information's sake, the solenoid was mounted by the factory with the terminals toward the engine. I'm not where I can check mine right now so I won't comment by memory on the wiring.

 

[SIVAllan]

S IV ignition questions

Allan

Try measuring the voltage at the live side of the coil (opposite the connection to the distributor). Check this when the ignition is on and when the engine is being cranked. I have known faulty switches (not on Sunbeams) to fail to supply power to the coil while the engine is being cranked.

Just a thought.

Ok, thanks.
Not sure how to check it, though,
A voltmeter across the two poles?

 

[SIVAllan]

Allan, do you have reason to think the wire is bad? Please let us know the results your testing. With a few clues, we usually do pretty well diagnosing no starts. Changing parts for no apparent reason usually leads to nowhere.

Bill

Bill,

I think you are away, but for the sake of anyone following this, finally restored power to the starter. The engine spins again.

No fuel gets past the fuel pump. The S IV pump was rebuilt by a British car shop locally and I will assume it operates properly.

There is plenty of gas in the tank (s?).

Tomorrow I plan to look at the fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel pump.

I took a look this afternoon, and the line goes back towards the passenger side tank and disappears.

Hopefully there is no need to disconnect it, and a siphon will clear anything blocking flow.

Any comments or suggestions are welcomed.

Allan

 

[Wombat]

Connect the voltmeter between the Switch terminal on the ignition and earth. Earth will be positive if you are running the original SIV electrics.

Actually as I write this one of your previous posts is at the top of the screen. In that you say the brown wire shares a pole with the starter. This should share a pole with the battery cable.

 

[Jeff Scoville]

Bill,

I think you are away, but for the sake of anyone following this, finally restored power to the starter. The engine spins again.

No fuel gets past the fuel pump. The S IV pump was rebuilt by a British car shop locally and I will assume it operates properly.

There is plenty of gas in the tank (s?).

Tomorrow I plan to look at the fuel line from the gas tank to the fuel pump.

I took a look this afternoon, and the line goes back towards the passenger side tank and disappears.

Hopefully there is no need to disconnect it, and a siphon will clear anything blocking flow.

Any comments or suggestions are welcomed.

Allan

Sounds like typical crap in the fuel lines due to the paint coming loose inside the tanks.

 

[Bill Blue]

Heyyy, glad to see it is turning over.

I think Jeff is right, fuel tank liner crud in the fuel line. As a quick and dirty test, blow backwards through the fuel line. If this produces a nice flow of fuel, plan on taking only short trips. The line will probably clog again pretty shortly. The only known remedy is to remove the tanks and crossover pipe, clean everything and recoat with a fuel proof coating.

The pain! The agony!

Bill

 

[britbeam]

When restoring Alpines save time by removing the fuel tank and having it cleaned and sealed. Replace all lines and hoses. I didnt do this until recently. I did the fuel tank but only blew air through the lines and Im sure that had to contribute to some of my lack of performance in the Alpine brakes. All is new now and Life is GOOd.
Dwain V6 Krazy

 

[SIVAllan]

SIV ignition questions

Heyyy, glad to see it is turning over.

I think Jeff is right, fuel tank liner crud in the fuel line. As a quick and dirty test, blow backwards through the fuel line. If this produces a nice flow of fuel, plan on taking only short trips. The line will probably clog again pretty shortly. The only known remedy is to remove the tanks and crossover pipe, clean everything and recoat with a fuel proof coating.

The pain! The agony!

Bill

Yikes. I've never fooled with gas tanks. Sounds dangerous!

I have access to an air compressor and will put some compressed air back through the line and let you know what happens.

A siphon attempt to pull fuel forward did not work. I'd need a powerful siphon with a back/release valve to be successful.

If I need to replace the line...any recommendations?

Also, my ancient Clymers, Glenns and Haynes manuals cover a lot but not removal of the gas tanks.

Any idea as to the whereabouts of an instruction on that procedure?

Allan