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ranger, s10 brake question, midget rack

Discussion in 'Modified Alpine' started by Filister, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. Filister

    Filister Silver Level Sponsor

    Hi, currently driving my 57 Rapier and enjoying it. It has alpine 4 spindles with alpine 5 hubs and rotors with the .7 master and no booster. Also has alpine 5 trans and rear ed.

    Looking to the future I'm considering a v6 conversion. Looking at 2 possibilities , either a mild 2.8 conversion or possibly a 4.3 . I'd like to improve the brakes and convert to midget rack.

    I have seen many references to the effect that the ranger or s10 rotors are a "bolt on" conversion. I have searched every mention of this I can find on the net and no one addresses how to handle the inner bearing id and od differences between the sunbeam and the others.

    Can anyone explain in detail how this is handled?

    The midget rack seems straight forward enough. It would be nice if anyone new of a site with measurements on rack placement. I see some have used the mgb rack but most use the midget. Anyone know why the mgb is not so popular? I have a complete mgb front subframe and it would be nice if I could utilize those parts.

    Thanks in advance for help you can give.
  2. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    The Grassroots Sunbeam used Ford Ranger rotors and calipers and MGB steering rack. I'll add a link:
  3. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

  4. Filister

    Filister Silver Level Sponsor

    Thanks Jim, sleeve makes perfect sense, that's what I would have thought but I have seen no mention of sleeve in any write up. All seem to indicate its just a bearing match.

    So, why did you choose the mgb rack instead of the midget on your project?
  5. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    Not my car but, the MGB rack is slower ratio than the Midget so easier steering. The Midget and MGB rack are both a little longer than optimum. He didn't have to bend the tie rods with the longer steering arms. The Miata rack is a better fit but hard to find a manual rack. There are articles on De-Powering the Miata rack to manual.
  6. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    BillyJoOlinyk-CA.jpg BillyJoOlinyk-CC.jpg I like this setup with Porsche rack and Mustang rotors better:
  7. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Diamond Level Sponsor

  8. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    Bill, No but it is better with the longer steering arms. The turning circle is increased though.
  9. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    REsolve the easier steering with EPS
  10. Warren

    Warren Silver Level Sponsor

    A lot of times I just go around the block with a MG rack and one of Dale's old kits installed.
    I had forgotten how slow and easy the stock Tiger rack was very GT like ;)
  11. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    Warren, The Midget rack would benefit from Dan's EPS!
  12. Filister

    Filister Silver Level Sponsor

    Great info, looks like I'm good to go with the mgb rack and the mustang ii rotors. On the shim for the bearings, is that a thin shim just to make up the difference, or is the spindle turned down a bit and a thicker shim made?

    Trying to stay away from the custom stuff like the Wilwood rotors. Main concern on brakes (and somewhat on steering) is to have cheap, easily located parts for future maintenance. The Alpine set-up is working well but I had trouble sourcing reasonably priced calipers. I finally found a set of Capri calipers but they seem to be getting scarce also.
    I was quite happy with the brakes and steering on my stock Tiger last century. Mainly just relaxed cruising. The Rapier will be similar.

    The porsche rack and mustang ii rotors is a nice looking set up.

    Thanks for the help.
  13. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    Interference fit DOM tubing pressed on either spindle or inside bearing race. Spindle would be better, then you can buy off the shelf bearings. There are bearings for the outer but you need the spacer for the small inside bearing. May have to be turned or bored for right thickness. I'll get the dimensions for you. I think it was Fox Mustang not Mustang II. Also you may have to bore inner or outer hub deeper for correct bearing spacing. The spacer for the inner bearing may be a good product for my retirement business!
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  14. Filister

    Filister Silver Level Sponsor

    I assumed (!) mustang ii would be close to the ranger. I think they have the same bearings. I have mustang ii hubs I can check.
  15. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    May work, The picture uses the Fox Mustang.
  16. Filister

    Filister Silver Level Sponsor

    I have considered that, I have a pair of Mutt spindles on hand. I worry I don't understand spindle geometry well enough to get this right. I've read that it only requires reaming to a proper taper for the ball joint studs, but that seems to easy. And then which steering arms are used? I'm only considering the rack change to open up engine possibilities. I have assembled several complete mutt suspensions for street rods with good success but get a bit nervous with mix and match. A complete mutt set up for the Rapier is doable for me, but a lot more than this project requires. I also considered a complete mgb cross member swap as it appears straight forward.

    I realize that for a 2.8 I don't really have to change anything, but the Rapier has the old worm and peg steering that is kinda dead feeling and very hard to find parts for. I'd like to upgrade that in as simple and straightforward way as possible.
  17. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    I'll probably use the MGB steering arms and rack as I have those parts already.
  18. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor


    I sent a PM to you.
  19. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    Alpine outer bearing fits in all the hubs mentioned. Race OD is the same. Inner bearing sleeve ID needs to be .002 smaller than Alpine spindle for interference fit and OD the same as Mustang II spindle. Outer bearing spacing should be below threads. Inner bearing close to stock with seal in same spot.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  20. Filister

    Filister Silver Level Sponsor

    Thanks for the info Jim. I have a friend making up a sleeve for trial purposes, but, right now I'm leaning to adapting in the mutt spindles

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