Pointer to notches / TDC

[am99ey]

My engine is still pinging. I wanted to check up on the ingnition setup.
Rockers of #1 are just on changing over, so I must be close to TDC.
The pointer on the chain cover does not point to one of the notches, but to nowhere. Wat type of pointer is this? Error from the factory, from another engine (cannot be)... - what am I facing here?

Remark: Engine is running well and performing reasonable, - just pinnging under acceleration. Not yet 1000km since rebuild.

 

[jumpinjan]

That is the factory pointer. I would try to calibrate that pointer to TDC. You might remove #1 spark plug and insert a device like a screwdriver and try to sense when the piston reached TDC, and verify the alignment of the pointer to the timing mark on the pulley.
Concerning the pinging, check the heat range of your spark plugs.

(I have never heard any pinging from an Alpine. In the early '70s I ran 12.5:1 compression in my 1600 and never experienced it)
Jan

 

[Alpine Bob]

Jan,
Doesn't the grade of gasoline have something to do with pinging, also?

 

[jumpinjan]

Bob,
Oh yes, sure it does. The cheap grades of fuel will not burn at a consistant rate, and many things will set off pre-detonation.
So yeah, check what fuel is in the tank and check other things like the spark plug heat range being too high (and timing).
Jan

 

[serIIalpine]

I get what I think is pinging from my engine when I use 87 unleaded. I know my CR is rather low, around 9:1. If I run 91 it goes away and I shouldn't need the higher octane at my CR.

I run 22 degrees advance at 3000 rpm because of my disconnected Vac advance and DCOEs.

Any less advance and the car runs noticeably more poorly (less powwer)

Just some info.

Eric

'62 SerII

 

[Nickodell]

My engine is still pinging. I wanted to check up on the ingnition setup.
Rockers of #1 are just on changing over, so I must be close to TDC.
The pointer on the chain cover does not point to one of the notches, but to nowhere. Wat type of pointer is this? Error from the factory, from another engine (cannot be)... - what am I facing here?

Remark: Engine is running well and performing reasonable, - just pinnging under acceleration. Not yet 1000km since rebuild.

Assuming that you are using fuel with at least 91 octane (93 is better), move the distributor very slightly in the "retard" (late) direction and see if this fixes it. You should also take a vacuum gauge reading - if the needle is in the 22-23 area, and vibrating, you are certainly over-advanced.

 

[am99ey]

Thanks for the hints, I have gone through these.
- The sparks are brand new (from Rick's SS).
- Fuel is 98 unleaded, best available here.
- Piston/Rockers position shows TDC (approx., at least) , sparks are removed.
- Vacuum is there, although not measured exactly (nothing to do with defining TDC/pointer).

Calibrating the pointer to notch (TDC) is the very first step I try to do.
If you look at the attached picture, I don't think the pointer is in the correct place. Several manual/drawings I have, show the pointer much closer to the flywheel, aligning with the (imaginary) line to the center of the crankshaft.
How is your pointer attached to the cain cover?
Thanks Andy

 

[husky drvr]

Andy,

Your pulley with the timing mark does not appear to be the proper Alpine unit with the damper ring. In fact, it appears to be a pulley from an engine with an iron head. I think you will find that the TDC mark is not in the proper location unless you also have the matching crankshaft in your engine. Guess-ti-mating the difference, I would say about 15-20 degrees difference.

Hope This Helps

 

[am99ey]

Don
Thank you for your feedback. Now I can see the similarity to 'cast head' engine.
My manual does mention and picture the two different pulley types.
Mine comes close(r) to a 'cast head' type. I checked some photos made before the rebuild. Pulley and pointer are the same as before- and after- rebuild. Only a seal modification on the chain cover was made (see picture).

The PO mentioned that the engine was exchanged at 10'000km by the Rootes dealer in '67 on guaranty to a new one, free of charge. The very original engine had extreme oil loss which could not be repaired (??), guess it was scrapped then. But my 'new' engine carries the same number as the chassis. The engine # must have been stamped for the exchange purpose in order to match the registration papers. So it must have been an 'out of box exchange engine'. This might explain the deviation from original.

By sight, my engine looks the same as any other SV Engine I know. What is the exact purpose of a damper ring? Can I drive like this? After all the engine ran 130'000km until rebuild without a problem.
Thanks for an opinion.
Andy

 

[Beamin]

I had this exact same dilema when getting my Alpine back on the road a couple of years ago. After much head scratching and querying the forum, I settled on the fact that I had a timing cover from an iron head engine.

I cranked the engine around by hand until I got to TDC, then marked the timing cover with a fine line of paint to represent TDC, which was nowhere near the pointer.

When it was all said and done, I decided to use a vacuum gage to set my timing rather than a timing light...

Andy

 

[jumpinjan]

What is the exact purpose of a damper ring?

Andy,
The purpose of the damper is to "dampen" out the torsional oscillations in the crankshaft. If the oscillations are allowed to "resonate" they grow in amplitude at the engine's natural resonance. The bottom line is it is there to save the crankshaft from breaking! I would try to find the factory Alpine damper and install it.
Jan

 

[Alpine 1789]

How do the iron head pulleys and timing covers differ?

 

[husky drvr]

How do the iron head pulleys and timing covers differ?

Jim,

Not sure the timing covers are different - the pointers appear identical. The two pulleys I compared had the keyway located in slightly different locations, when matching the TDC marks. The one with the damper is NOS, so I am sure the damper ring has not slipped. I can get pics but it will be tomorrow evening at the earliest. The part # on the damper pulley is X1228153, if someone cares to check its proper fitments.

 

[am99ey]

Jan
Thnaks.
So I will try to find a dampered pulley!
Is there a difference in ".. torsional oscillations in the crankshaft" between a cast head and a alu head?
Andy

 

[am99ey]

Done !

The initial ignition setup was all right. I used the methode of looking at the change over of the rockers on #1.
Thank you all for the Information.

Next step is checking the valve rocker clearance (WSM quotes inlet=0.31mm outlet=0.36mm on a hot engine...). I found the present clearance on #1 is zero (!) at the moment. All others are between 0.1mm and 0.3mm. I am hesitating running the engine hot in this condition.

To which clearance "cold" should I adjust them before starting the engine?

Thank's Andy

 

[Tom H]

Set it to the Hot specs while cold. Then run it till it gets hot and redo . It will probably be about 0.04 mm too loose when hot, but it will run OK. But as I said, redo it when hot.

Tom

 

[am99ey]

By now I have re-checked the TDC, ignition initial setup, rocker clearance. (used a dot of paint for marking).
- Now she is purring nicely in the garage.
... not enough oil coming from rockers holes?
I observed the rockers while engine running. Very little to no oil is oozing out of some of the small holes on top of the rockers. I believe this is the way the rocker/valve/springs region should be lubricated (by oozing?!). The WSM does not mention anything on that.
The "L/T" connector between the rocker shafts is not sealing 100%. On one end (firewall_side) there is a small dribbling/stream leakage.
Is there a wearing down possible on these parts?
Thanks, Andy

 

[serIIalpine]

Put an "O" ring on either side of the brass T to help the oil get to where it belongs. Unfortunately you will have to remove the rocker assembly to do this and then reset the rocker adjustment.

Also, at idle the oiling at the top is minimal. Once the engine is running at speed it gets thrown around pretty well and everything should get pretty well lubed.

Eric

'62 SerII

 

[am99ey]

Thank's Eric
I can follow this thought.
What size/measures do you recommend for this "O" ring. Needs to be quite thin, I measured by blade left_gap=0.12mm and right_gap=0.25mm.
What torque do you apply for the 8 nuts? I have no information on this. Is there anything to position or to consider for reassembling?
Equal release and tighten the nuts again in steps I guess. The 8 springs must generate tons of pressure to a few rockers.
Andy

 

[am99ey]

What torque do I need for the 8 nuts on the rocker_shaft studs/bolts?
Thanks, Andy