Original Starting Nut?

[puff4]

OK, so I found this on eBay tonight and I've never seen such a thing for the Alpine. Seller claims it is for Alpine, but has anyone here seen a starting nut like this? The original ones I've seen are very different.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Star...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[George Coleman]

I have one of them on my Alpine V motor and one on a spare parts motor. I think they used these on Hillmans but some found there way on to Alpines, I know that the early Alpines had the one that you could use the hand cranks on.

 

[Andrew]

Yes, I had the mushroom type on my SIII and SIV, I am unsure what tool was used to put these on and off and what about the torque setting as using a socket is impossible? One can still use a hand crank with the mushroom style and I think they are a little stronger bolt than the SI and SII style. The SI and SII had a long pipe style with cut outs for the hand crank and a deep socket could be used for this type, these made it much better to at least being able set the torque on the bolt. I am not sure what type was used on the SV. Most guys remove these bolts and replace them with a more common / better grade bolt. I think Jan has made a few notes in regard to this in the past.

Regards,
Andrew

 

[SIVAllan]

All my 1725 motors have the "mushroom" nut which works fine with the hand crank handle.

I remove them with a pipe wrench, and tighten them with the same wrench.

These nuts may be safer than the others, at least they LOOK safer and maybe will release the starting handle more smoothly if the motor kicks back.

Why do folks remove these nuts?

The hand crank is a great tool for use in setting the engine for adjusting points, etc as well as for use should the starter fail.

 

[puff4]

Well, you learn something new every day... I'd only ever seen the 'pipe' style nuts, not these mushrooms.

The pipe-style starting nuts can be torqued with a 1-5/16" deep socket... PROTO Tools makes the proper item:

PROTO 1-5⁄16" size … 29 / 32" deep … 3/4" drive … Proto #5542

It can be found from many suppliers… here’s one:

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto-J5542-4-Inch-16-Inch/dp/B00018AJSY

I'm almost certain nobody else makes a socket with the sufficient depth... I did a *lot* of research to find this Proto item, and I've actually used it for the job, so it's a sure thing.

However, these mushroom nuts would probably require a crows-foot attachment for proper torquing (with requisite recalculation of the torque), and I'd imagine the size is the same (1-5/16") though that bears checking. IMHO, I would not use a pipe wrench, though, since the Alpine crank pullies are already subject to failure via cracking... no sense risking over-torquing.

As for SV cars, IIRC they came with a plain nut... i.e. no starting nut... and it is also 1-5/16".

Now, back to the advertised item... we've agreed the nut is a correct item, but surely that 'starting handle' is not the correct item?? It looks more like the handle from a Shelly jack (at best) or perhaps a brand-x scissors jack.... but, certainly not a Sunbeam item, is it? Heck, it's the wrong colour for a start.

Click here for Grainger link to Crow's Foot.

 

[Limey]

OK, so I found this on eBay tonight and I've never seen such a thing for the Alpine. Seller claims it is for Alpine, but has anyone here seen a starting nut like this?
The original ones I've seen are very different.

Aye. I have 4 1600cc engines and they all have them accessed via a hinged licence plate. Hate to have to use it though.

Olly

 

[bernd_st]

Acc. to the parts book the mushroom type was never original for the Alpine. Have a Singer Gazelle SV parts book as well and it shows the mushroom starting jaw under parts# P.103766. So looks like a common fitment for the Rootes limousine range including at least Singers and possibly also Hillmans...

 

[britbits]

starting nut

I have one of these I am putting on Ebay today

 

[agmason54]

Crank pulley bolt

Beamers,
I have seen these on Rootes engines but never on matching # Alpines so I think they are not original to Alpines but who knows...
They are a lead blob cast on to a bolt.What were they thinking?
Agm

 

[Rootes 66]

Guys
I beg to differ
I Believe Part no P103766 was standard on the 1600 and 1725 engines up until chassis number B395005604. May 1966 when there must have been a recall for some reason and the "mushroom" type was superceeded with pt no 1235122. Its interesting to note in the late parts book in also updates the earlier 1600 engine details and s/d that part number to 1235122 too, Looking closely you can see they only update one drawing, the one that lists the part, all the other drawings of the engine still show the older type.
My 2p worth
Pete

 

[puff4]

So is Part # 1235122 the tube-style crank nut, or is it just a nut with no crank capability?

 

[Rootes 66]

Kevin
Thats about it 1235122 is the tube type, My part books don't list any plain bolt (5th Issue of 1966 reprint)
Pete

 

[puff4]

Thanks Pete. There definitely was a plain bolt, as I have one!

 

[Rootes 66]

Kevin
If its a flanged bolt its possibly from the Arrows range, It is coceivable that the very vary late Alpine and Sceptre may have used them, There would have been an overlap of Arrows/ light cars range engines built at the time.
Pete