Oil, oil everywhere

[Glenn Barbi]

Hi folks....

So I have been slowly going through a Series V Alpine with a 1725 engine which was rebuilt by a friend some 4 years ago now. I have finally gotten to the point of installing the engine, drive train, etc.....you know the drill, and started the engine the other day.

Good news....it ran smoothly with no spurious bits coming through the block and no ugly sounds. The "not so excellent news," oil came literally pouring out of the transmission bell housing weep hole, like to the tune of 1/2 quart every 30 seconds.

Kill the engine pronto obviously and consider the problem. I have yet to pull off the clutch inspection cover to seee what I can see, which will most likely not be much.

I understand that these engines have a reverse worm setup on the back of the crankshaft to encourage oil to stay inside the crank case, not a rear main seal, whcih I at first considered to be the culprit. Too, can anyone confirm that there is a plug at the back of the engine block which closes off an oil gallery which runs through the block? If indeed this is the case, I surmise that this was inadvertently left off during the rebuild, hence the most active production of oil immediately upon starting the engine.

As well, and if I do end up needing to access this area, I am hoping to be able to remove the shift lever, transmission cross member and mounts, drive shaft and whatever else, and along with a capable friend or two, split the gearbox and remove the clutch pack to access the back of the engine, without dropping the front subframe, with all of what that entails.

What say ye? Does it sound as though I am on the right trail?
....is there hope, or should I just "end it all" now?

Thanks much in advance.

Glenn.

 

[jumpinjan]

Glenn,
Wow, thats too bad. If its the gallery rear plug, I would think it would empty the oil pan in 30 sec (not to mention zero oil pressure all that time the engine was running; You might want to verify that you have oil pressure. Refill with oil and do a 15 sec cranking on JUST the starter; Don't let it run!).
I suspect the camshaft plug fell out. If so, you might find it laying in the bottom of the bellhousing?
Jan

 

[FP67Alpine]

re oil everywhere

sounds like the cam plug is not installed or sealed, or rear main bearing cap not sealed to the block, or rear oil galley plug missing, also recommend a new front trans seal installed while it is out.

 

[RootesRacer]

sounds like the cam plug is not installed or sealed, or rear main bearing cap not sealed to the block, or rear oil galley plug missing, also recommend a new front trans seal installed while it is out.

Cam plug FTW.

 

[Glenn Barbi]

Cam plug FTW.

Thanks for this, Lads. Actually the engine only ran for several seconds before I discovered this oil leak improvement opportunity. You have confirmed however, that there is indeed (or should be) a plug back there. The gearbox is fresh with a new seal installed. I am sure that the bearing cap is correctly installed and seated. Is it consensus that I should be able to remove the gearbox and clutch from the engine with the subframe and engine in the car and attend to this plug? Thanks much. More to follow. Glenn.

 

[RootesRooter]

Loosen the engine mount bolts to give yourself a tiny bit of extra room to tilt back the engine when pulling the tranny.

 

[sd_pace]

wouldnt the timing cover be making a noise if the cam plug came out (Free floating cam would move around a little) and if it came out wouldnt the plug jamb or rub aginst the flywheel?
I would assume the rear seal failed... either way it has to come apart to fix.... just my two cents worth...

steve

 

[Glenn Barbi]

In addition to the cam plug, is there also an oil gallery plug? Seems to me that if the latter were loose, it would leak like a sieve but would not make any niose?

 

[RootesRacer]

wouldnt the timing cover be making a noise if the cam plug came out (Free floating cam would move around a little) and if it came out wouldnt the plug jamb or rub aginst the flywheel?
I would assume the rear seal failed... either way it has to come apart to fix.... just my two cents worth...

steve

The cam has two axial thrust faces, the cam chain cog and a thrust face on the the camshaft itself. There is a precision plate between.

 

[sd_pace]

yes, true ... curious.... so what kind of force would cause the plug to dislodge? just the oil pressure alone?

 

[jumpinjan]

Well, what could happen during assembly, when installing the cam chain sprocket (right after the camshaft & thrust plate was installed). Its a slight press fit onto the cam, and without knowing, one wants to tap it on with a mallet. Doing that hammers on the rear plug and dislodges it. Then a little oil pressure finishes it.
To install, just use a long, threaded bolt or all-thread and screw it on.
Make sure the plug is installed with the convex side out and use some hardening gasket sealer (like "ThreeBond Liquid Gasket 1194") or epoxy (to make sure its really set in place) and then lightly make the convex surface flat with a hammer. That will make it expand very slightly.
Jan

 

[RootesRooter]

yes, true ... curious.... so what kind of force would cause the plug to dislodge? just the oil pressure alone?

Too hasty cam installation.

 

[RootesRooter]

Just to be sure, did you check the oil level on the dipstick and was there any smell of gasoline in the oil? If the diaphragm on the fuel pump goes bad you can quickly fill up the pan to the point the oil/fuel mixture pours out around the back of the crank.

 

[Glenn Barbi]

Hi to all....Low and behold. Gearbox, etc. removed revealing a missing oil gallery plug at the back of the block. Easily rectified and buttoned up. Thanks for everyone's help.