Non Hooded Headlights

[Eleven]

When did the hooded headlight surrounds get replaced? My SV Serial number shows it was built in October of 1967 and has the hooded items. I had them off when I got the car painted and they look original (at least had the right old paint in hidden areas). I was told they must have been replaced by someone but am not so sure. I wonder if Rootes ran out of the smooth ones near the end and just grabbed what they had.

 

[John Boggis]

When did the hooded headlight surrounds get replaced? My SV Serial number shows it was built in October of 1967 and has the hooded items. I had them off when I got the car painted and they look original (at least had the right old paint in hidden areas). I was told they must have been replaced by someone but am not so sure. I wonder if Rootes ran out of the smooth ones near the end and just grabbed what they had.

Yours are original the non hooded headlights came in on chassis number B395017900 November 1967.

 

[Jay Laifman]

Non hooded rock!

 

[Rodewaryer]

Non hooded headlight surrounds on a Sunbeam Alpine is something like a 4 door Ferrari, or a Porsche with water cooling or a truck with low profile street tires. Sure all those things work and can still look 'good' but they take away from the originality and character of the original. Hell, when it comes to the main character defining elements of an Alpine what else is there besides the hooded headlight surrounds and the fins? Not much.

For that matter, what else came with the late non-hooded surrounds? Just about every MG after the T series and even some of those, the Healeys, most the Triumph TR's....why do I even bother, hundreds of cars came with that headlight ring. Yet how many came with the hooded ones? A T-bird and a few Rootes cars....maybe a few others that I'm spacing but not many.

The blue car in the pic still looks ok but it's not an improvement on the original design by any means.

 

[alpine_64]

Non hooded headlight surrounds on a Sunbeam Alpine is something like a 4 door Ferrari, or a Porsche with water cooling or a truck with low profile street tires. Sure all those things work and can still look 'good' but they take away from the originality and character of the original. Hell, when it comes to the main character defining elements of an Alpine what else is there besides the hooded headlight surrounds and the fins? Not much.

For that matter, what else came with the late non-hooded surrounds? Just about every MG after the T series and even some of those, the Healeys, most the Triumph TR's....why do I even bother, hundreds of cars came with that headlight ring. Yet how many came with the hooded ones? A T-bird and a few Rootes cars....maybe a few others that I'm spacing but not many.

The blue car in the pic still looks ok but it's not an improvement on the original design by any means.

Just to clarify about original design intentions.. the original design proposals did not have hooded rims.. they came later in the peice and were likely to do with the standardisation with other rootes parts, in '59 the majority of the rootes lines had moved to peaked rims.

As for the features.. the alpine is such a clean design.. the early over riders really put me off they are so heavy and over bearing.. the headlight rims look ok, but they look better on the later cars as the SI-3 over riders combine with them to make the front look fussy and heavy.. the smooth ones make the front look more streamlined.. think of the SI/Ii with their slim rakend screen, lack of sheilds and the neat way the hood folded.. then think how fussy the headlight rims and bumpers look.

Also the cliped rims are not "non peaked" as so many call them.. they are not round but have a peak to match the top of the guard profile..

just my .02... im a fan of clean design.. infact.. i thin i am gogint o put SIV-V over riders on my SII

 

[Chuck Ingram]

But I like the look of the early overriders.They seem to give the front bumper a more mass look.They also saved me some damage when an heck of a nice guy backed up and did hit the bumper overrider instead of the grill and valance.Fortunately he was barely moving when he touched the bumper.

 

[puff4]

I also like the look of the original hooded headlights... mostly because it helps to maintain the link to the original inspiration for the Sunbeam Alpine's design, which was the Ford T-Bird of the 1950's.

BTW, hooded headlights were originally called 'Frenched' headlights - not sure why, but that's what they were called all through the 50's and 60's. Indeed, many 1950's cars had them, most notably the 1955/56/57 Chevy and of course the Thunderbirds. Taillights were also sometimes 'Frenched' as well.

 

[Eleven]

I think "Frenched" means inset, so the hooded items gave the look of an inset headlight.

 

[MikeH]

When I hear "frenched"

 

[puff4]

That sort of 'total inset' Frenching is an outgrowth of the original, what might now be termed 'half-Frenched' headlights that our cars and the cars of the 50's had. In the 50's they really didn't do so much of that total Frenching, but it's become popular.

 

[Jimjordan2]

That sort of 'total inset' Frenching is an outgrowth of the original, what might now be termed 'half-Frenched' headlights that our cars and the cars of the 50's had. In the 50's they really didn't do so much of that total Frenching, but it's become popular.

This has been an educational and informative thread. Thank you all.

 

[Jay Laifman]

Yes, I'm reaffirmingn here that the "original design" by Kenneth Howes, was non-hooded. His stated intent was a car that was like a raindrop. "From the very beginning this was a car whose theme included a relatively low front end, with headlamps in the corners, and with a waist line which rose relentlessly towards the rear where it ended with a pair of fins." (Robson)

It wasn't until later after the prototypes were built and wind tunnel testing was done, when the Rootes family got its hands on the car with the non-hooded headlights that the family thought the change should be made for the American market. They also sadly pushed the rake of the windshield more upright (and again on the S3), and added badges and things, whereas Howes wanted a car beautiful in it's own right, without clutter. "The car will obtain its beauty from purity in shape, relying less and less on bits and pieces of chrome trappings idly and often ostentatiously placed here and there on the body." (Howes)

There are pictures of the original buck and the running prototypes with the non-hooded headlights in McGovern's book and Robson's book. There is a really good picture of the original buck from the front - but it's not in any of those books (the rear quarter is in the McGovern book). I posted it once on this web site. But, that was in an early iteration of this website and it seems to have been lost. Maybe Ian or someone still has that picture. I think I got it from him originally.

FWIW, the original design did not have any bumperettes, just the horizontal bumper - all part of Howes "purity of shape".

 

[John W]

I like the frenched headlight trim better than the plain look, plus they keep the rain off your headlights.

 

[Jay Laifman]

I found the picture! The quality is not great. Maybe someone has a better one.

 

[Jay Laifman]

Note, BTW, that it looks nothing like the Tbird. That is all the Rootes family fault, not the designer's.

 

[MikeH]

Looks more like a Packard Hawk

http://www.socalbeachesclassiccars....09/10/1958_Packard_Hawk_041_2_reszie_logo.JPG

 

[mickjj]

How come some cars have the "Hoods" chromed? Is that just a peronal choice thing??

 

[agmason]

If the Rootes bro's told Ken Howe to lower the front bumper and get rid of the rear fender scallops , then there is nothing to complain about the Roots styling input!

 

[weaselkeeper]

I love a lively opinioned discussion, so I'll jump in. My '67 has hooded or "peaked" rings. I'd switch them in a heartbeat if someone had non-hooded ones for sale or swap. I'm also a fan of removed badges and emblems and have started that very process with a welder. I might even shave the the door handles before this is over with flush mount or eliminate totally, dunno yet. Just like the clean look mentioned below.

The best part about building your own car, is that you can build your OWN car knowing that everyone else won't care for it. That's okay. That's what a custom car is all about. And that's why the paint store sell different colors, for our personal preferences. Personally, I appreciate the thoughts and ideas of others efforts, even if I wouldn't choose it for my own car. Maybe I should keep my comments to the modified forum. my bad.
Thanks for the lively discussion. P.

 

[John W]

I love a lively opinioned discussion, so I'll jump in. My '67 has hooded or "peaked" rings. I'd switch them in a heartbeat if someone had non-hooded ones for sale or swap. I'm also a fan of removed badges and emblems and have started that very process with a welder. I might even shave the the door handles before this is over with flush mount or eliminate totally, dunno yet. Just like the clean look mentioned below.

The best part about building your own car, is that you can build your OWN car knowing that everyone else won't care for it. That's okay. That's what a custom car is all about. And that's why the paint store sell different colors, for our personal preferences. Personally, I appreciate the thoughts and ideas of others efforts, even if I wouldn't choose it for my own car. Maybe I should keep my comments to the modified forum. my bad.
Thanks for the lively discussion. P.

I agree with you on one thing, I LOVE the lively discussions. As far as a Sunbeam, or any car, what I enjoy most is how the car was "back in the day." Just something about an original or the effort to keep a car original or restore one to original that's, I don't know, "cool." You don't just have an old car, but also something that's a timepiece of sorts. Doesn't bother me in the least what people do with their cars. What I don't like, I usually find humorous, not that often to someone else's displeasure, I suppose. When I first got my SV with non-peaked rims I was really suspicious of the previous owner's explanation that the non-peaked were "rare." Learned a lot since then (2002). Still like the peaked or "frenched" ones better.