No Spark SV

Ron67Alpine · Dec 24, 2008

Hi All and Merry Christmas,
So, I'm putting this SV back together after 10 yrs+ in a barn. Although I'm puttering w/several systems, I'm trying to concentrate on 1 system @ a time. First step is getting it to fire. I've hot-wired the + coil terminal directly to battery and am getting 12+v to the coil. Using the button on the starter relay I'm turning over the engine, and using ether, in the carbs. I've got new points (adjusted), wires and condenser as well as new battery, boosted w/a portable power pack. She turns over fine, w/good compression but I'm not getting ignition.
I've also hooked up an induction timing light to the wire from coil to distributor and I'm not getting any light from the strobe. This would seem to indicate that the coil is shot. Am I on the right track? Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Ron

puff4 · Dec 24, 2008

Did you check to see if you're getting a little spark when you flick the points? When you open and close them (ign on) you should see a little blue spark.

Ron67Alpine · Dec 24, 2008

I haven't tried that, Kevin, I thought the induction light would pick up even a weak spark.
Aren't the points fired/powered by the red, 12v, wire from the - coil terminal to distributor?
BTW one of the reasons I'm isolating the ignition by hotwiring is because I don't have keys and the dash is apart.
Thanks

Oh yeah, anyone know what the primary/secondary ohm readings should be? The manual I have doesn't do diagnostics very well.

SIVAllan · Dec 24, 2008

I'm a rookie backyard kind of guy

but increasingly well trained by this forum

so
I'll ask if the spark at the plugs has been checked. IF no spark, then work upstream...dizzy...coil.... ??

I'd do this one remedial step at a time, then it will work (maybe

) .

If yer wiring is Ok, then only a few points can go wrong .. ??

Allan

Ron67Alpine · Dec 24, 2008

That's what I'm trying to do, Allan. By hotwiring directly to the coil, I've eliminated everything between battery and coil, so I'm left w/coil to the dizzy to plugs. By putting the timing light on the hi voltage wire to the dizzy, I've eliminated the distributor to plugs. So that leaves me w/the coil. I'm kinda lookin' for confirmation that my logic is correct. I've already bought items I don't need and don't want to spend $ on faulty logic.
Thanks

SIVAllan · Dec 24, 2008

Ron67Alpine said:
That's what I'm trying to do, Allan. By hotwiring directly to the coil, I've eliminated everything between battery and coil, so I'm left w/coil to the dizzy to plugs. By putting the timing light on the hi voltage wire to the dizzy, I've eliminated the distributor to plugs. So that leaves me w/the coil. I'm kinda lookin' for confirmation that my logic is correct. I've already bought items I don't need and don't want to spend $ on faulty logic.
Thanks

That's a new use of a timing light (to me

) but just for the sake of asking, did each spark plug laid against a ground provide a fat blue spark ?

Allan

Ron67Alpine · Dec 24, 2008

nope! I really haven't done that but I have pulled the plugs and see absolutly no indication of spark, no arc marks. They look as new as when I put them in. I know this test is definitive for spark @ the plugs and I'll do it. It's a little awkward to hold the plug and wire against a ground while pushing the solinoid button on the other side of the engine compartment. I'm pretty sure that I could hold on to a plug wire, barefoot, in a puddle of water and not feel a thing...except cold feet

beamS3 · Dec 25, 2008

Merry Christmas
Try putting a meter across the points and observe that continuity should be interrupted as points come off cam. Replace condensor. Coil depends on points position to fire. Depending on your setup - 12v to coil may damage it. resistors or resistance wires are often used to drop the voltage to 6V and allow for starter draw at startup. Good luck

Bob
BeamS3

V6 JOSE · Dec 25, 2008

I would check to see if the coil is any good. I once had the same symptoms and it was driving me crazy. A friend of mine said to change the coil and VOILA!!

Jose

Ron67Alpine · Dec 26, 2008

Maybe that's why the Brits used a positive ground, Bob...to prevent car theft.

The SV is a neg ground and according to the wiring diagram it's powered directly off the ignition key switch, so direct power from battery shouldn't be a problem. At this point I'm just trying to get spark, timing can come later. I have a hard time believing that I've set the points so far wide that they don't close @ any point. The condenser as well as points are new, I hope it's not a bad new condenser.
I'm getting a new distributor cap today, so I'll check spark @ the points, but I'm thinking I agree w/Jose.
Jose, there are some simple continuity tests that can be done on motorcycle coils, but I can't find the procedure or specs in my manual. Anyone happen to know if this can be done here?

Are the petronix EI points replacements any good?
Thanks and Happy New Year.
Ron

Alpine Bob · Dec 26, 2008

I have the Petronix system on two of our Alpines, and sware by them, trouble free, and great factory support if needed. I also have the Flame thrower Coil to go with them. I really like the setup.

Tom H · Dec 26, 2008

Ron,

Very simple to trace. You should absolutely have a 12 V test light in your tool kit. They cost $5.00. It's a 12 v lamp mounted in a clear plastic handle on a 5 in pointy tool that looks like screwdriver but has a pointy end. And it has a wire coming out from the end of the handle with an alligator clip on the end. Or you can use a tail lamp socket with a 12 V lamp and a pair of wires.

1) Apply power to the coil, hard wire it or turn on the switch. Connect your test lamp to that supply terminal on the coil and the other end to gnd. It should light up, unless something is wrong in your "hard wire" or your switch.

2) If there IS power going TO the coil, disconnect the wire from the coil that goes to the dizzy. Connect your test lamp to that terminal (the dizzy terminal of the coil) and keep the other end of your test light to ground. It should still light up, but slightly less bright. If it doesn't light, the coil is bad. Replace it.

3) If step 2 goes as expected and the light lights, keep the lamp connected to the dist term of the dizzy, but move the other end of the test lamp from ground to the dizzy. This puts the test lamp in series with the coil. Now crank the engine (or better yet, turn it by hand) . The test light should go on and off as the dizzy contacts open and close. It should go on and off twice for every revolution of the engine. If it does not go ON, then you have either a broken wire inside the dizzy or the points are adjusted so they never close. If it stays ON always, then the wire is shorted or the points are adjusted so that they never open.

4) If the light goes ON and Off as it should in step 3, then check to see if the secondary (High voltage side) of the coil is OK. Keep the 12 v applied. Insert the normal high voltage wire into the high voltage post of the coil, but disconnect the other end from the dist cap and instead hold it with the tip of the wire about 1/8 inch from a good ground. Now use just the wire (no lamp) from your test lamp to connect to the coil (dist terminal of the coil) and touch the other end to ground and then remove it from ground (simulating the action of the points). Be sure the coil is NOT connected to the dizzy during this test. You should get a spark from the end of the high voltage wire (jumping to ground) every time you touch and untouch the other wire. If not the coil is bad or the high voltage wire or connection is bad. Try another high voltage wire next to be sure the wire is good. If the wire is good then the coil is bad.

This completely tests your dizzy and coil system. If all is good here then the problem is in the Dist cap, rotor, spark plug wires, or spark plugs.

Tom

Ron67Alpine · Dec 27, 2008

Thanks for all the replies, I figured it out. I pretty much did as Tom suggested, w/his very clear instructions. I actually have a couple of test lights, good item for your car kit, but prefer to use the multimeter, it's a bit more versatile. Since the consensus was to go back to basics and test the circuits, that's what I did. I knew I was getting current into the coil (pos terminal) but wasn't getting anything out (neg term). When I removed the dizzy wire from the neg, I then got power from that terminal, but when I plugged it back in the voltage went away. I then tested continuity from the points spring to ground and got continuity, so something was shorting to ground in the points. Checked resistance in the condenser, took the points out, cleaned, reassembled, put them back in and still had a dead ground to the points. Figured the only place there could be a dead ground is in the insulator on the back spring pivot, where the condenser and coil attach. (Whoda thunk it?) Got my old points, which weren't in bad shape,(and better quality) cleaned them up, dressed the contacts, installed, set and got spark @ the points.

A little more futtzin' and putterin', a liberal spraying w/ether and...pop...pop...sputter, wham, she's alive.

So that's a big load off my head, what good is a car that won't start. I even reinstalled my radiator & fan and got a start on putting the alternator back in.
All in all a very productive day-after-Christmas. Now all I have to do is hook up the radiator and alternator and some tuning. Then fuel/carb, hydraulics, brakes, clutch, tires, paint, windshield, body seals, interior, top, dashboard and associated wiring/linkages, lights and trim...Dang, I'm almost done!!!

Thanks for your opinion on the Petronix EI, Bob. I'm really thinking about switching over...but I really want to use my dwell/tach again.

Thanks again and BTW, Advance Auto can order the distributor cap, wires, condenser and also a better set of points than the crappy ones I got on ebay.
Hope y'all had a great Christmas and a Happy New Year.
hmmm now I've got some questions about that brake booster.

jbiii52111 · Sep 9, 2009

Just saying thanks

Hi Gents,

Thank you for all the reminders of those areas I've definitly forgotten about.

jbiii