Newbie Owner Questions

[mikephillips]

The thunk is generally the wheels shifting against the hubs due to the space that opens up as the splines wear. Doesn't take much to get that. As noted, greasing and tightening up the knockoffs can sort of stop it, but doesn't correct the cause. Just makes it harder for the wheel to shift against the hub and the grease provides some cushion. As well as eventually runs down the spokes as rotation pushes it out around the ends.

 

[RootesRooter]

Just to go back to tire selection. Someone had mentioned running 185's. I think those might be too wide for stock wire rims. They might hold to the rims under normal driving, but they'll look like balloons.

 

[azbeam]

Just to go back to tire selection. Someone had mentioned running 185's. I think those might be too wide for stock wire rims. They might hold to the rims under normal driving, but they'll look like balloons.

They are stock wire rims and I went to Discount Tire today. Net result is either I: A) buy new wheels/rims (which would require me to buy new hubs) and new tubeless tires - that is $2,500 more or less or B) keep existing wheels/rims and find a local shop that can reseal my wheels and buy new tubes & new tube tires like https://www.cokertire.com/165hr13-michelin-xas-ff.html - that is likely $1,500, but not sure of what a shop will charge me to reseal the wheels.

With my current tires being 1996 vintage, albeit with probably only 30 miles of wear, I am not comfortable driving on them.

Hopefully I can figure out the wheel clunk issue, but am guessing it might be tied to the wheels (maybe not, never know). Seller said he may have put the caliper seals in the opposite way and that is then catching the brake. Will wait to see when my mechanic gets it all opened up.

This forum is great by the way. I am definitely a newbie and learning as I go and everyone has been extremely helpful. Thanks - Dan

 

[Toyanvil]

I your wheels are okay, I would remove the tires and have your powder coat friend sandblast them and then paint the inside, install a new bands and take them to a GOOD motorcycle shop and have them mount new tires and tubes. When you get home, let the air out and tape off the tires and paint the wheels. P.S. I have had front brake pads made the same sound as bad wheels.

 

[Toyanvil]

One more thing, a 155/80-13 tire is close to stock size. They are easy to find and cheap, Discount Tire should have them.

 

[Bill Blue]

Many years ago, I bought a small tube of diamond lapping powder that was marketed to increase friction. The stuff was terrific! I twisted a #2 Phillips screw driver in two on a stubborn screw, using just a small dab on the business end of the screwdriver. The stuff eliminate the tendency of screwdrivers to cam out. It was impossible to remove a screwdriver from a slot while twisting the screwdriver. I've often wondered why it could not be used on the smooth mating surfaces of knock off hubs to stop movement between the two components. The diamond grit really grabs into steel, locking components together.

Bill

 

[MikeH]

A few quick questions/comments:
Delta 240 Supreme P175/80R13 tires that as best I can tell are quite old. DOT # is ALJUDMD1226. I can only assume these tires were made in 1996 in the 22nd week of the year, but if I am off base please let me know.

- Dan

Dan,
I believe the DOT # on you tires indicate they were manufactured the 26th week of 2012. This would make them about 5-1/2 years old.
Here is a link to DOT date description.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

 

[azbeam]

Dan,
I believe the DOT # on you tires indicate they were manufactured the 26th week of 2012. This would make them about 5-1/2 years old.
Here is a link to DOT date description.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11

I went to Discount Tire yesterday and they confirmed the wheels are from 1996 unfortunately.

 

[azbeam]

I your wheels are okay, I would remove the tires and have your powder coat friend sandblast them and then paint the inside, install a new bands and take them to a GOOD motorcycle shop and have them mount new tires and tubes. When you get home, let the air out and tape off the tires and paint the wheels. P.S. I have had front brake pads made the same sound as bad wheels.

Thanks for the advice. From this video -

- it appears i will also need to use silicon to seal the holes prior to putting on the bands. Self painting the wheels is likely going to look a little shoddy, no? Not sure the sand blasting will get me much versus how my wheels currently look. Yes, they could be better, but not sure how much better they will look if I am self-painting them.

I think the next best steps for me, since I am not looking to blow serious cash to get tires that are safe and my painted wire wheels look pretty good as-is, are to: 1) buy new tubeless tires & tubes & rubber bands, 2) get tires taken off my current wheels, 3) reseal my current wheels and 4) have a good tire shop mount the bands/tubes/tires. My mechanic said he has the equipment to fine tune/align the wire wheels, but doesn't want to deal with any other component of the wheels/tires.

This all assumes my wheel noise isn't related to the hubs & the spines are in good shape. If they are not then the more expensive route is likely needed (new wheels, hubs, tires, tubes and bands). Sure wish they could make wire wheels that are self sealed and so tubeless tires could be used...

 

[MikeH]

I went to Discount Tire yesterday and they confirmed the wheels are from 1996 unfortunately.

Reviewing my post, I agree. The date code numbers are reversed from the description in the link. Had it been 2612, I would have been correct.

 

[azbeam]

Reviewing my post, I agree. The date code numbers are reversed from the description in the link. Had it been 2612, I would have been correct.

Agreed. Wish it was reversed...

 

[Toyanvil]

You just use the bands, you do not need to use silicon. Sunbeam wheels are not sealed and do not need to be, that is for wire-wheels that can use tubeless tires and have a built in bead on the rim to seat the tubeless tire, you can see it in the video.

 

[azbeam]

You just use the bands, you do not need to use silicon. Sunbeam wheels are not sealed and do not need to be, that is for wire-wheels that can use tubeless tires and have a built in bead on the rim to seat the tubeless tire, you can see it in the video.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[azbeam]

View attachment 8553 Welcome azbeam. Having a unique opportunity with a very original example of a Harrington Le Mans (HLM) I wanted to preserve the historical significance of this rare marque. I purchased new ( exactly as original) Dayton wire wheels (Sprite/Midget) and put together good inner bands from my many Sunbeam wire wheels. The MOSS option sounds like the best. I closely matched the powder coating color (Sunbeam wire wheels are not pure silver) with a wheel color disc from jumpinjan. I had to buy 6lbs of material but only used about 1.5 lbs. I will be in the Phoenix area next week for my annual trip to the car auctions. I could bring you 2lbs if the TSA doesn't detain/arrest me for having a fine powder substance in my bag. The tires were Falken 185/70R/13 with a T rating (118 mph) from Discount. However, I would use Kuhmos next time. I purchased soft rubber summer Kuhmos for my Miata and they are awesome. Mike is the expert on the hub issues so do check them out. All said and done though it makes a difference on your intended use. I knew that because my HLM was a race car (#195) for its first year of life I would probably get on a race track at some point in my ownership and wouldn't be able to resist putting the weber carbs to the test. I have managed an unofficial 100 + with the HLM.

That is one sweet looking ride jdoclogan.
I am not clear on what exactly you did with the wheels however. Did you get them powder coated? I don't know what a MOSS option is to be honest. Is that a type of rubber band for over the inside of the rim or a type of tube inside the tire? Good to hear that you would go with Kuhmos next time, but I don't see that they sell a tube tire option. Very few places sell tube tires that I have found and coker appears to keep popping up in searches - https://www.cokertire.com/165hr13-michelin-xas-ff.html. They are 4 times as much as tubeless tires, but I don't appear to have an option if i stick with wire wheels.
I don't plan on racing my Alpine and doubt i get it over 65 MPH for any extended time period. Mostly just a local driver as I doubt I would trust it to go any real length of distance.
I am checking out the hubs later today when i get the car over to the shop.
Thanks - Dan

 

[azbeam]

That is one sweet looking ride jdoclogan.
I am not clear on what exactly you did with the wheels however. Did you get them powder coated? I don't know what a MOSS option is to be honest. Is that a type of rubber band for over the inside of the rim or a type of tube inside the tire? Good to hear that you would go with Kuhmos next time, but I don't see that they sell a tube tire option. Very few places sell tube tires that I have found and coker appears to keep popping up in searches - https://www.cokertire.com/165hr13-michelin-xas-ff.html. They are 4 times as much as tubeless tires, but I don't appear to have an option if i stick with wire wheels.
I don't plan on racing my Alpine and doubt i get it over 65 MPH for any extended time period. Mostly just a local driver as I doubt I would trust it to go any real length of distance.
I am checking out the hubs later today when i get the car over to the shop.
Thanks - Dan

MOSS option - guessing you are talking about the MG Midget wheels like this - https://mossmotors.com/mg-midget-austin-healey-sprite/wheels-tires/wire-wheels-23 - right?

I just got off the phone with Allen over at - www.hendrixwirewheel.com - as i have read they are some of the best guys for wire wheels. He is going to put together some pricing for me on my two options as I now won't know until Fri/Mon if my hubs' spines are good or not as my mechanic is busy until then. Appears painted is the original way versus chrome, which it sounds like you did on your HLM.

 

[azbeam]

Once you powder coat the wheel wires doesn't that make future adjustments/tightening of the spokes impossible without cracking the coating?
I was told a tube in a tubeless tire (which isn't smooth on the inside) will end up causing the tube to rupture much quicker than a specific tubeless tire. If that isn't the case that is great to hear as the tire options open up significantly and lower costs.
Your first moss motors link above just goes to their main page. The second link worked and that does look like the best option.
Thanks

 

[65beam]

Over the years I've been around a lot of tire stores and related shops that sell tires. Before retirement one of my jobs as company operations manager was responsibility of the franchised tire stores/repair shops that the company owned. One of the things we had to adhere to under our contract was to follow the guide lines set down by the companies to reduce legal problems that could pop up if a store employee didn't go by those guide lines. When you started this thread my thoughts were that your main problem was going to a store such as Tire Discounters. If you check I think you'll find that they're not supposed to install a tube in a tubeless tire. None of the company owned or franchises of any of the big box tire stores are to do such a thing. Too much responsibility involved. Most managers and techs have no idea what your car is. I stood by and watched a tech in a Goodyear store in Cincinnati that told a friend of mine that he could not install a tube in the tires of his MG. An older tech and several of us laughed and watched the young guy make a fool of himself. They also have no idea how to balance a wire wheel. In this area of the U.S. we have a lot of independent tire stores run by "good ol boys". You need to find an independent store with a knowledge of original wires and older cars and talk to them. They have access to the same tires and many have brands the big box stores don't. Buy the tubes and bands from Moss and go to an independent and tell them what you have and the tires you are looking for. Oh, Moss also sells rattle cans of the proper color paint for British wire wheels.

 

[azbeam]

Like your intended use I don't drive my HLM that much and most likely I won't need to make any adjustment/tuning "down the road" (intentional pun). If I were driving my HLM 10-15 thousand miles per year my approach would be a poly-urethane paint system. I'm currently beginning the restoration of a 1962 Sebring Sunbeam racer that was raced with wire wheels. I will most likely have two sets of wheels and tires. Powder coated for static showings and painted wheels for vintage race use.

A tubeless wheel/tire combination is certainly a safer way to go. With a punctured tubeless/tire system the air escapes slowly. The same puncture on a tube/tire system will often create the blowout episode that can lead to difficulty in keeping control of the vehicle. We don't hear about blowout accidents too much anymore because most all vehicles use the tubeless system. I've never heard about the notion that one can not put a tube in a tubeless tire because of its inner surface. You might want to read this, https://www.cokertire.com/blog/tube-tech/.

I just included the general "Home Page" of MOSS Motors for you or any other reader.

Understood and thanks for the additional color.

 

[azbeam]

Over the years I've been around a lot of tire stores and related shops that sell tires. Before retirement one of my jobs as company operations manager was responsibility of the franchised tire stores/repair shops that the company owned. One of the things we had to adhere to under our contract was to follow the guide lines set down by the companies to reduce legal problems that could pop up if a store employee didn't go by those guide lines. When you started this thread my thoughts were that your main problem was going to a store such as Tire Discounters. If you check I think you'll find that they're not supposed to install a tube in a tubeless tire. None of the company owned or franchises of any of the big box tire stores are to do such a thing. Too much responsibility involved. Most managers and techs have no idea what your car is. I stood by and watched a tech in a Goodyear store in Cincinnati that told a friend of mine that he could not install a tube in the tires of his MG. An older tech and several of us laughed and watched the young guy make a fool of himself. They also have no idea how to balance a wire wheel. In this area of the U.S. we have a lot of independent tire stores run by "good ol boys". You need to find an independent store with a knowledge of original wires and older cars and talk to them. They have access to the same tires and many have brands the big box stores don't. Buy the tubes and bands from Moss and go to an independent and tell them what you have and the tires you are looking for. Oh, Moss also sells rattle cans of the proper color paint for British wire wheels.

I agree with what you are saying and I am glad to hear about the lack of needing a true tubeless tire as they are multiple times more expensive and there are less options.
I plan on heading over to Barrett Jackson here in town in two weeks and expect to get some good referrals on the wire wheels as my Google searches have come up cold, which isn't surprising as "good ol boys" likely aren't big tech marketing guys.
Thanks - Dan

 

[65beam]

Jerry, Those are the facts that I had to live with for several decades. The only thing that has changed is that I'm retired but every time problems rise my contract gets me back in the middle. I still have one NOS wire wheel in the attic. It came with all the stuff I bought from one dealer. The next time we get out west for a meet that I know you're going to attend I'll make sure I have it with me.